RMT to form new electoral coalition

[tbaldwin]

There is certainly space for a more cohesvive party of the left beyond just The Green Party. Let's see if they manage it this time.

A non hysterical party to the Left of Labour could probably do very very well.
But will that ever happen?
Most left parties start with a serious credibility problem.......
They pretend they have all the answers and that they would be so much better than the LP etc etc....But how many people are really going to fall for that? If they just said they would try and do slightly better, more people would start to trust them.
A left wing party that was democratic and concentrated on bread and butter issues could be a very good thing and genuineely shake things up a bit.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I already said I can't give a link but that the information is accurate. It's not from an open list.

That's fine, but you can tell us what list it's from. Then we can use that information to assess its likely accuracy for ourselves.

Bob Crow has certainly not rejoined the SLP, by the way.

 

[Fedayn]

If the RMT is looking to form an electoral coalition then perhaps they should contact Mark Serwotka at the PCS. They are planning to put up candidates as union members directly in the General Election.

Not quite, between conference ther in May and next years 2010 ADC there'll be debate withing the union. Then at next years conference a motion wuill be debated to put a motion/resolution/question to the membership to support PCS either standing independent TU candidates or supporting other TU candidates in elections. The vote by the membership will be the decisive vote.

 

[Silver_Fox]

If the RMT is looking to form an electoral coalition then perhaps they should contact Mark Serwotka at the PCS. They are planning to put up candidates as union members directly in the General Election.

As Fedayn has said and also I very much doubt the initiatives in the PCS will come to anything before the general election. Which is a shame as after that there will be pressure in the TU movement to reclaim the rump of the parliamentary Labour party which is still around. Although I think such a strategy is a load of horse dung, the argument will be used that the LP is now more dependent on union money than ever, so we need to make it our party again.

The other option, and I think it's an outside one, is that if the SWP are frozen out of the SP/RMT/CPB initiative then they mind try and align themselves with Mark Serwotka who was very critical of No2EU both in the way it was set up and its politics. In which case daggers will be drawn.

That's fine, but you can tell us what list it's from. Then we can use that information to assess its likely accuracy for ourselves.

Apologies but I can't. You'll have to take it or leave it but it will come out in the next few weeks regardless. Don't you know being in the SP?

Bob Crow has certainly not rejoined the SLP, by the way.

I thought so and thanks for confirming, would have been extremely bizarre. The bureaucrats in the unions do come out with some strange stuff sometimes! God knows where they got that idea from.

Comparrisons to No2EU are a little misguided because I reckon No2EUs biggest problem is that they left it too late.

Hopefully you are right as No2EU was a bureaucratic and undemocratic stitch decided on behind closed doors. And with the CPB as a drivinig force, it was no surprise. Also the politics of it were appalling. Lets hope the CPB have less influence on the politics and democracy of this initiative.

 

[The39thStep]

Is this true. If so things get more and more bizarre

He was a member at one time

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Apologies but I can't. You'll have to take it or leave it but it will come out in the next few weeks regardless.

Why not? Is the existence of the list some kind of secret? Is it the list of some political organisation?

Don't you know being in the SP?

I'm in the Irish Socialist Party, not the English and Welsh one.

Hopefully you are right as No2EU was a bureaucratic and undemocratic stitch decided on behind closed doors.

This is a bizarre statement. How exactly is a limited electoral pact between organisations for one election supposed to organise itself, if not by discussions and deals between those organisations?

There was no individual membership (and for straightforward logistical reasons could be no individual membership) to bring to a conference or anything like that.

 

[mutley]

'I'm in the Irish Socialist Party, not the English and Welsh one.'

You usually seem to be able to wheel out what purports to be detailed knowledge of candidates, TU left factions and who knows what on any amount of Brit-left stuff so i think that's a bit disingenuous to be honest. Don't go all coy on us.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

'
You usually seem to be able to wheel out what purports to be detailed knowledge of candidates, TU left factions and who knows what on any amount of Brit-left stuff so i think that's a bit disingenuous to be honest. Don't go all coy on us.

I'm not being coy. I genuinely don't know what the current state of play is with regard to this. I'm not in the English and Welsh SP, and so don't have ongoing detailed access to their discussions unless I get off my arse and ask someone what's going on. I've been away for the last couple of weeks and so haven't done that.

 

[Silver_Fox]

Why not? Is the existence of the list some kind of secret? Is it the list of some political organisation?

Does it matter? Believe the info if you like, don't if you don't. Either way you'll find out quite soon. I have very little information on this and hopefully more details will come out soon.

I'm in the Irish Socialist Party, not the English and Welsh one.

OK, maybe best to ask someone in the SP in England then. I'm sure they can confirm for you.

This is a bizarre statement. How exactly is a limited electoral pact between organisations for one election supposed to organise itself, if not by discussions and deals between those organisations?

There was no individual membership (and for straightforward logistical reasons could be no individual membership) to bring to a conference or anything like that.

I've got no particular axe to grind with any organisation but several RMT activists have told me about the way No2EU was formed and it wasn't good, with RMT activists even being banned from attending meetings. Even the SP have said the way the No2EU was formed wasn't nearly democratic enough.

Personally I think such a formation should come out of union meetings and open conferences. If that can't be the case then it's better to wait and take your time. The result for No2EU hardly suggests anything to the contrary.

If a new pro-working class alternative is to be successful it has to have roots in the unions and local communities. Something like this takes patient work, as the anti-capitalist party in France has shown.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Does it matter?

I'm curious because of your slightly odd insistence that it's very hush hush. Why on earth would it be a problem for you to say what list you got this from?

 

[Silver_Fox]

It's not hush hush in a wider sense, it's that someone might get personally annoyed with me! Not suggesting for a second it's some earth shattering news or some massive secret I've uncovered.

 

[Nigel]

Got the impression that the CPB stated that they will not break away from supporting Labour Party.

Good news if this is true

 

[greenman]

With the possible exception of the Greens and Scots and Welsh Nats (and whilst there are socialist elements in these parties the leaderships are often more social democratic/left liberal) the Left in Britain are likely to go down and go down hard at the next general election, tactical and electoral agreements or not. (Tactical agreements might soften the blow). This is an inevitable result of the British Left's attachment to the Labour Party through the shibboleth of the "organic" Trade Union link.

Once this likelihood is faced then a realistic appraisal of what can be salvaged in the short term and what the longer term strategic tasks should be can be addressed. I think that effort should be put into getting some electable tribunes elected - Salma, Caroline, some of the left Scots and Welsh Nats and the handful of electable Labour Lefts behind McDonnell's "change manifesto" idea. Such a grouping of MPS should present themselves as a left opposition in Parliament, separate and distinct from the rump Labour Party (which is likely, after defeat, to fall into civil war between different rightist factions). But beyond that the emphasis should be on the work that the Convention of the Left sensibly concluded was necessary - basic grassroots bread and butter coalition working. (Which will become even more vital in the face of the already telegraphed Tory onslaught on the British working class) Much of the left nodded in agreement to this and then went away and continued with the same old sterile sect politics, student recruitment and foreign policy fetishisation.....there is still time.

 

[glenquagmire]

Got the impression that the CPB stated that they will not break away from supporting Labour Party.

Good news if this is true

Have I misunderstood this? What about NO2EU?

 

[JimPage]

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=18467

Intresting that SW has printed a reponse by SPEW to the SWP`s unity call, which is less hostile to the SWP that prevuious SPEW response a few weeks back

 

[Nigel]

Have I misunderstood this? What about NO2EU?

Apparentely they still have illusions that the Labour Party can be turned around!

 

[glenquagmire]

We all know about the split in the CPB between those who want to remain with the Labourist strategy and those who don't.

But your suggestion that the CPB will not break away from the Labour Party would seem to be slightly contradicted by their standing several candidates against Labour.

 

[JHE]

The CPB's line on the Labour Party is more or less that it can be much improved and will be the main workers' party in the transition to socialism, helped along by the smaller but much clearer and cleverer CP.

This doesn't stop them standing against the LP, of course, but they only do so in very few places. Hackney South used to be one of them.

The idea that you mustn't electorally oppose the LP too much or in too many places gets trotted out when the CPB decides that it doesn't want to join whatever lefty or other lash-up is on offer. They did this when they turned down the invitation to join al-Respeq. Allegedly, it was a close run thing in the CPB whether to join. In any case, I can't believe the supposed reason, since al-Respeq only stood in a few constituencies. I suppose the most charitable interpretation would be that while the CPB only has ambition to stand against Labour in a few places, al-Respeq at the time talked as if it would like in the long run to stand in many places. I reckon that's bollocks, though. They join or not depending on whether they like the balance of forces within the proposed lash-up.

 

[Nigel]

Apparentely R. Griffiths has made various statements that contradict, but in the end come out in favour supporting Labour Party.

This seems to be their most recent stance:
http://www.communist-party.org.uk/i...-front-for-action&catid=58:summer-09&Itemid=2

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Apparentely R. Griffiths has made various statements that contradict, but in the end come out in favour supporting Labour Party.

This seems to be their most recent stance:
http://www.communist-party.org.uk/i...-front-for-action&catid=58:summer-09&Itemid=2

Have you actually read the link; for example the extract below?

Meeting in Croydon over the weekend, the party's executive committee urged unity around left-wing and progressive Labour candidates at the election. While expressing its preference for a Labour rather than a Tory victory, it also called for united support for other candidates who oppose imperialist war, Britain's nuclear weapons, a big business Europe, privatisation and the anti-trade union laws and who back public ownership, the People's Charter, workers in struggle and solidarity with oppressed peoples around the world.​

This seems to be rather more complicated than simply supporting the Labour Party.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Nigel]

Have you actually read the link; for example the extract below?

Meeting in Croydon over the weekend, the party's executive committee urged unity around left-wing and progressive Labour candidates at the election. While expressing its preference for a Labour rather than a Tory victory, it also called for united support for other candidates who oppose imperialist war, Britain's nuclear weapons, a big business Europe, privatisation and the anti-trade union laws and who back public ownership, the People's Charter, workers in struggle and solidarity with oppressed peoples around the world.​

This seems to be rather more complicated than simply supporting the Labour Party.

Louis MacNeice

Take your point.
Should have said, from what CPB members have said to me, will be supporting Labour Party in coming elections.

 

[Nigel]

Any update on this?

 

[Rod Sleeves]

The Keep Metro Public Campaign is standing a candidate in a council by-election in North Tyneside in a couple of weeks, I know the SP, ex Socialist Alliance types, and the local PCS and RMT branches are heavily involved, and I think a CPB member or two.

I imagine they could get a hundred votes.

 

[Nigel]

The Keep Metro Public Campaign is standing a candidate in a council by-election in North Tyneside in a couple of weeks, I know the SP, ex Socialist Alliance types, and the local PCS and RMT branches are heavily involved, and I think a CPB member or two.

I imagine they could get a hundred votes.

Heard anything on this?

 

[Rod Sleeves]

No more no, as I don't move in those circles regularly.