Ritzy's "crack" door.

[gaijingirl]

I totally appreciate the problem in Brixton, agree that something needs to happen and I have joined the mailing list, signed the petition for the centre on Brighton Terrace etc..

But I do feel sad at the thought of another negative story in the press about Brixton.

 

[IntoStella]

But I do feel sad at the thought of another negative story in the press about Brixton.

If you lived opposite the Ritzy crack doors, you would feel very different.

 

[gaijingirl]

If you lived opposite the Ritzy crack doors, you would feel very different.

I expect you're right. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, but I still feel sad about it.

 

[netbob]

But I do feel sad at the thought of another negative story in the press about Brixton.

It doesnt have to be negative if you look at it from the point of Brixton sorting its own problems out, giving the authorities a kick up the arse etc

 

[gaijingirl]

It doesnt have to be negative if you look at it from the point of Brixton sorting its own problems out, giving the authorities a kick up the arse etc

Yes, I can see it that way... but it just gets so tiresome to see story after story about Brixton's problems and having to explain over and over to people who've never even been here that it's not all about drug dealers, muggers etc etc...

Anyway, I'm taking this completely off topic and you guys are obviously trying to do something constructive here.

 

[SteveB]

Yes, I can see it that way... but it just gets so tiresome to see story after story about Brixton's problems and having to explain over and over to people who've never even been here that it's not all about drug dealers, muggers etc etc...

Anyway, I'm taking this completely off topic and you guys are obviously trying to do something constructive here.

Has anyone got accurate Brixton arrest statistics? I heard a story recently from a reliable source that over half of all police arrests in Brixton for drug-related crime are drug tourists - people, mostly middle class and white, who visit Brixton between Thursday and Sunday to buy drugs. And then bugger off back to where they came from. Or cause trouble when they're sold talcum powder.
It strikes me that - if true - this is a key area in which locals might wish to see action taken. A way to diminish supply is to reduce demand. So a way to reduce supply within the Brixton illegal drugs market is for the police to have an even bigger crack at the drug tourists.
Everyone knows that the Brixton police need to tread carefully - quite right too, given the history - when arresting Brixtonians on the street, e.g. a black drug dealer. But there's no reason why every drug tourist making their way to and from the tube station and Dogstar Bar or Living Bar shouldn't have their pockets turned out by a copper. It would hit those two bars' alcohol sales but who cares?
If the central Brixton community knew this was police policy - to target the drug tourists - I could imagine crowds of locals cheering as each search and arrest took place.

 

[JWH]

there's no reason why every drug tourist making their way to and from the tube station and Dogstar Bar or Living Bar shouldn't have their pockets turned out by a copper.

How would you propose that worked in practice? Stop and search anyone wearing 3/4 length trousers or Acupuncture trainers?

 

[ed99]

only just read this.

i don't have the full facts (ducks for cover) but here is what i have heard of late (just so you know, i do the music events for the ritzy cafe and in the screens so even though all this is of course of concern to me, it is not exactly within my powers etc etc...you get the idea).

the latest seems to be that there is an understanding / agreement being put together whereby a decent solution involving a new barrier is to be put together with a 50 / 50 involvement between the ritzy and the council which sounds fair enough.

the ritzy's head office is aware of what is going on here and is fully involved but do feel free to get in touch with them. it is something that needs sorting, i totally agree.

just to clear one thing up though: i too have heard that there used to be an issue with complaints from RC road residents regarding the sheer noise of those grills being closed and opened in the early hours of the weekend. things have changed since then obviously (i think we are talking several years back) - that's not bullshit or evasive talk so whoever told you that at this end was right.

boycott - i can understand that.
feel free to PM me anything or just reply to this...
sorry it is not that informative but there we go.

 

[netbob]

i too have heard that there used to be an issue with complaints from RC road residents regarding the sheer noise of those grills being closed and opened in the early hours of the weekend.

Ive got some WD40 : )

You probably need to kill that argument once and for all - Ive heard it from the mouth of atleast one polcieman and could be used as an excuse for inaction.

 

[editor]

Has anyone got accurate Brixton arrest statistics? I heard a story recently from a reliable source that over half of all police arrests in Brixton for drug-related crime are drug tourists - people, mostly middle class and white...

Really?

Could I ask where your "reliable source" was getting his/her information from?

 

[tarannau]

Everyone knows that the Brixton police need to tread carefully - quite right too, given the history - when arresting Brixtonians on the street, e.g. a black drug dealer. But there's no reason why every drug tourist making their way to and from the tube station and Dogstar Bar or Living Bar shouldn't have their pockets turned out by a copper. It would hit those two bars' alcohol sales but who cares?
If the central Brixton community knew this was police policy - to target the drug tourists - I could imagine crowds of locals cheering as each search and arrest took place.

Thius just strikes me as cloud cuckoo land. Do you honestly believe that most of those feeding the profits of the more unsavoury characters hanging around Rushcroft and surrounding streets are posh people wandering to the Living Room. It's far from braying yahs and plummy tones I hear yelling desperately at 4 in the morning.

Will locals have a 'Brixton Passport' to avoid being searched on a depressingly regular basis, stirring up all kinds of poor community relations. And why mention the race of the drug dealer in your example.

Depressing tub-thumping reactionary nonsense. I certainly can't imagine one of my neigbours cheering police doing mass stop and searches to minimal effect.

 

[editor]

If the central Brixton community knew this was police policy - to target the drug tourists - I could imagine crowds of locals cheering as each search and arrest took place.

Oh yes. I'm sure Brixtonians would be cheering wildly if they had a massive police presence descending on their doorsteps enforcing compulsory stop and searches!

But you shouldn't stop at the Dogstar and Living bar - what about the Bug bar, Academy, Plan B, Fridge, Prince of Wales etc etc - and then there's the pubs too!

In fact, maybe we should just put a checkpoint and holding bay at the tube station, with everyone being frisked as they enter Brixton, regardless of their involvement in drugs.

And then we'd need to have roadside police stations to check buses and cars too.

Of course, Brixton residents would then need to carry an ID card to prove they weren't one of these pesky out-of-towners, so I'm sure the bunting will be out in the streets if the police announced a compulsory ID card scheme for Brixtonites and compulsory stop and search of innocent folks coming into town!

Grrrrrrreat idea!

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Has anyone got accurate Brixton arrest statistics? I heard a story recently from a reliable source that over half of all police arrests in Brixton for drug-related crime are drug tourists - people, mostly middle class and white, who visit Brixton between Thursday and Sunday to buy drugs. And then bugger off back to where they came from. Or cause trouble when they're sold talcum powder.

I have just asked my husband about this and he reckons it's crap. He reckons middle class users tend to buy mostly off their local dealers who they know. He works in hackney but it is very similar to Brixton.

 

[netbob]

Stick in a freedom of information request: http://www.met.police.uk/foi/

 

[SteveB]

Really?

Could I ask where your "reliable source" was getting his/her information from?

Here you go:

Two sources, both from the [email protected] mailing list set up to discuss improvements to reduce crack and heroin dealing in Brixton - see www.pledgebank.com/brixton.

Extract from notes of a meeting held on 5/10/05 between Police Isp. Sean Martell + team, Chris D'Souza - lambeth community safety, Saltoun road residents, Rushcroft road residents, Electric Avenue residents

Many people buying weed & crack are from outside Brixton. Many of them end up getting mugged and the money often goes to crack dealers.

Police/council are considering using powers to arrest people with cannabis
and charge those considered dealers under a campaign called “No Deal.”

We need to make the connection in the public consciousness that if you
come to Brixton to buy weed your money can end up in the hands of crack
dealers (and you might get mugged). A similar thing was done with people
touting travel cards outside Brixton Tube.

Info from the Community Police Consultative Group for Lambeth (CPCG):

With regard to drug tourism, the local police tell us that 50% of those
arrested in Brixton are from outside of the area (or even the borough)-
whether that means people travel here to buy drugs, or buy drugs when
they're here for other reasons is another matter of course. I understand
that ideas for discouraging 'out of towners' are being worked up at the
moment.

So that's one local copper at Inspector level using the word "many" to describe the proportion of drug tourists operating in the Brixton drugs market and one higher level source from the CPCG claiming that "With regard to drug tourism, the local police tell us that 50% of those arrested in Brixton are from outside of the area (or even the borough)."
I met three drug tourists in the Prince Albert last night. They were sitting at the next table boasting about the "Pills" they were about to buy in the Dogstar pub. I asked them what the hell they thought they were doing, coming to Brixton to buy drugs (they were all north Londoners) encouraging the dealers to abuse the local neighbourhood, making it more likely that local children will step on used needles, etc. etc
My God they looked put out. One of them started spluttering. They clearly thought they were being cool and trendy and "with it" and "steet" to buy drugs in Brixton. When in fact, as I told them, they were like grubby little sex tourists exploiting a poor far Eastern country.
I believe you run a club night at the Dogstar pub. Perhaps you could discourage people attending your event from buying drugs in Brixton? Every little helps.

 

[SteveB]

How would you propose that worked in practice? Stop and search anyone wearing 3/4 length trousers or Acupuncture trainers?

An experienced Brixton copper would recognise them quite easily. In the same way that an experienced copper in the Far East can recognise a sex tourist.*

* Brixton drug tourists really hate being compared to sex tourists. Which is a very good reason for doing it.

 

[SteveB]

Thius just strikes me as cloud cuckoo land. Do you honestly believe that most of those feeding the profits of the more unsavoury characters hanging around Rushcroft and surrounding streets are posh people wandering to the Living Room. It's far from braying yahs and plummy tones I hear yelling desperately at 4 in the morning.

Will locals have a 'Brixton Passport' to avoid being searched on a depressingly regular basis, stirring up all kinds of poor community relations. And why mention the race of the drug dealer in your example.

Depressing tub-thumping reactionary nonsense. I certainly can't imagine one of my neigbours cheering police doing mass stop and searches to minimal effect.

I think it's you who is out of touch. All my central Brixton neighbours are fed up to the back teeth with chaotic drug sales and use in Brixton which, according to the police, is being fed by the drug tourists.
And, it seems, the police and Lambeth council are now gearing up to campaign against the drug tourists. They're also out of touch are they?

 

[SteveB]

Oh yes. I'm sure Brixtonians would be cheering wildly if they had a massive police presence descending on their doorsteps enforcing compulsory stop and searches!

But you shouldn't stop at the Dogstar and Living bar - what about the Bug bar, Academy, Plan B, Fridge, Prince of Wales etc etc - and then there's the pubs too!

In fact, maybe we should just put a checkpoint and holding bay at the tube station, with everyone being frisked as they enter Brixton, regardless of their involvement in drugs.

And then we'd need to have roadside police stations to check buses and cars too.

Of course, Brixton residents would then need to carry an ID card to prove they weren't one of these pesky out-of-towners, so I'm sure the bunting will be out in the streets if the police announced a compulsory ID card scheme for Brixtonites and compulsory stop and search of innocent folks coming into town!

Grrrrrrreat idea!

Maybe you don't realise how widely hated the drug tourists are? They're not "cool" people getting "down wi de yoot" in Brixton. They're the drugs equivalence of sex tourists, exploiting a poor neighbourhood and leaving locals to pick up the pieces. But maybe you're worried about trendy white drug takers who attend your Dogstar events being inconvenienced? LOL! Seriously, why not hand out flyers at your events warning drug tourists to stay away?

 

[SteveB]

I have just asked my husband about this and he reckons it's crap. He reckons middle class users tend to buy mostly off their local dealers who they know. He works in hackney but it is very similar to Brixton.

He's a copper right? Perhaps he should have a chat with his Brixton colleagues. Or go for a Thur/Fri/Sat night drink in the Dogstar pub.

 

[editor]

I believe you run a club night at the Dogstar pub. Perhaps you could discourage people attending your event from buying drugs in Brixton? Every little helps.

Err, and where does it specifically mention "white middle class" people going to the Dogstar/Living in your quote - or have you just embellished that bit to match your prejudices?

With regard to drug tourism, the local police tell us that 50% of those arrested in Brixton are from outside of the area (or even the borough)-
whether that means people travel here to buy drugs, or buy drugs when
they're here for other reasons is another matter of course. I understand
that ideas for discouraging 'out of towners' are being worked up at the
moment.

 

[editor]

I met three drug tourists in the Prince Albert last night. They were sitting at the next table boasting about the "Pills" they were about to buy in the Dogstar pub. I asked them what the hell they thought they were doing, coming to Brixton to buy drugs (they were all north Londoners) encouraging the dealers to abuse the local neighbourhood, making it more likely that local children will step on used needles, etc. etc
My God they looked put out. One of them started spluttering. They clearly thought they were being cool and trendy and "with it" and "steet" to buy drugs in Brixton. When in fact, as I told them, they were like grubby little sex tourists exploiting a poor far Eastern country.

I was in the Albert last night. It was very quiet.

I don't believe a word of your highly improbable yarn either, and it's clear that you're so driven with spite that you're happy to try and cause trouble for the Albert and the Dogstar by dragging them into your drug fantasies.

Your attempts to cause trouble for my own free club - which I note you've attended several times - really is scraping the barrel. You're a fucking disgrace.

Now fuck off Anna Key. You're a pathetic, nasty, vindictive, waste of space.

 

[JWH]

Sorry, saying that most/majority/whatever of drug buyers live outside Brixton is not the same as saying they're all m/c pill tourists drinking in the Dogstar. w/c crackheads can live/work outside Brixton too, obviously.

I suppose you could correlate the postcodes of each charged person with ABCD rankings and other data to guess at their socio-economic class, but that doesn't seem to have happened so far.

 

[brix]

You're a pathetic, nasty, vindictive, waste of space.

I hardly ever post on these boards because there's so much of this kind of nonsense going on. I love the idea of a community forum but this one keeps going off into these aggressive little tangents. It's really off putting.

 

[Giles]

Maybe you don't realise how widely hated the drug tourists are? They're not "cool" people getting "down wi de yoot" in Brixton. They're the drugs equivalence of sex tourists, exploiting a poor neighbourhood and leaving locals to pick up the pieces. But maybe you're worried about trendy white drug takers who attend your Dogstar events being inconvenienced? LOL! Seriously, why not hand out flyers at your events warning drug tourists to stay away?

Posh middle-class white people DO NOT generally buy their drugs off dodgy black geezers in the streets of Brixton. They get em off someone they know and trust, and can deal with with no risk, and no element of seediness at all. And I know.

Giles..

 

[Stobart Stopper]

So that's one local copper at Inspector level

He's an administrator, not a proper copper on the streets.

 

[pooka]

It has long been reported by the police that people buying drugs in Lambeth are as much from out of the borough as from in it. For example, during the cannabis trial in 2002, it was said that the proportions remained unchanged at around 50:50 (here

It's also the case that the police say that half of those apprehended for possession in Brixton come from outside.

But it is fair to say that that doesn't mean they have specifically travelled to Brixton to buy drugs nor do we have any baseline of what we should expect the proportion to be in a city in which people move about a lot and in the vicinity of a major transport hub.

Nonetheless, it's clear that people in Brixton have had it to the teeth with open street dealing in the Town Centre, that it will be the death of the centre if it carries on and people want something done.

It's true that mass stop and search would not be acceptable, for all the reasons given, but that targetted action against identified dealers and their customers, whether out of towners or not, would be widely supported, especially if it went with the introduction of rehab.

Giles: And do these nice middle class people know where their trusted source is buying from?

Here

For those who consider themselves recreational drug users, getting a few pills or an gram of coke often involves asking a mate, rather than approaching a dealer themselves.

If we're all going out partying together, it doesn't make sense for each of us to sort ourselves out individually," says Jonathan, who frequently gets ecstasy and cocaine for himself and a couple of his friends.

Jonathan started buying drugs from a dealer about four years ago, a step up from buying from friends, and usually spends about £350 per deal - cocaine being £50 a wrap and pills £3 each.

"Because the dealer operates close to where I work, it makes sense for me to do it.

"I have a number of friends who, while they enjoy taking drugs occasionally, aren't keen on meeting a dealer, and so I can bridge that gap for them."

 

[ed99]

passed on some of your comments to a 'higher force'.

quotes are in the pipeline apparently to sort out the doors - the main issue is to have a system that links to the ritzy's fire alarm but have been told that it is in hand...no dates or timelines given...sorry

but when i hear more will post it here or in a new thread

 

[editor]

I hardly ever post on these boards because there's so much of this kind of nonsense going on. I love the idea of a community forum but this one keeps going off into these aggressive little tangents. It's really off putting.

Tell me about it!

This latest piece of malicious mud-slinging came from a weirdly obsessive poster who has already been banned at least ten times from these boards.

Let's hope the debate can get back on track now.

 

[RushcroftRoader]

update on ritzy

Further to the post that the Ritzy and the Council are working on a solution for the crack door on Rushcroft Road, I have uncovered a smidgen more info.
In turns out that the existing metal grille on the door no longer complies with fire regulations for some bizarre bureaucratic reason.
Anyway, it is clear that some sort of action is now taking place to address this issue.

Lets keep tabs on what is happening and keep up the pressure.

 

[netbob]

Further to the post that the Ritzy and the Council are working on a solution for the crack door on Rushcroft Road, I have uncovered a smidgen more info.
In turns out that the existing metal grille on the door no longer complies with fire regulations for some bizarre bureaucratic reason.
Anyway, it is clear that some sort of action is now taking place to address this issue.

Lets keep tabs on what is happening and keep up the pressure.

It looks like something is set to happend to the Bradys doorways too. Anyone know of any other prooblem areas? I'm trying to compile a list