Ritzy staff strike May 26/June 1

[Gramsci]

Most of the Ritzy staff do it as a fairly short term job; many are relatively new arrivals in London getting themselves established, or do it part time to support themselves while studying or doing other stuff at the same time.

They have the option to go and work somewhere else, doing something more boring and less flexible, if they want to.

QUOTE]

The Mcjob line of argument. As Barbara Ehrenreich points out in "Nickel and Dimed" thats an argument business uses to pay there employees little-"Its not a "real" job.The idea that because you are "flexible" you should get paid less is now common and doesnt hold up either.If anything it should mean the opposite.

I get this all the time.Lots of jobs are now not "real" jobs,its your fault for doing them and if you dont do them then your a lazy British worker unlike those hard working East Europeans(thats a new one I hear often.).

Also is Barbara Ehrenreich points out the division between skilled and unskilled is just used to pay low wages.The McJobs she did required knowledge and skills that are not valued or recognised.

Also as Ehrenreich found out the argument that people do these jobs temporarily is not accurate.Many Mcjob holders do them for a long time and there companies depend on a core of regular experienced staff who provide a continuity of experience.

From personal experience I agree with a lot of what BE says.

 

[Gramsci]

Living wage info including stuff on GLA:

http://www.livingwage.org.uk/campaign.html


I see Ken Livingstone supports idea of living wage.Somewhat different from his comments recently about how British workers wont do these jobs.Twat .

 

[Gramsci]

You can email comments to City Screen directly:

[email protected]

If ur a Ritzy member the staff say it would be useful to state this in any comments.They are outside the Ritzy today holding a colourful demo.

 

[Gramsci]

You can email comments to City Screen directly:

[email protected]


you can CC comments to ritzy staff directly or contact them for info and update on


[email protected]

 

[tbaldwin]

I'm curious to know how much money they are making too. Anecdotally, not very much, from what I've heard. I might be wrong here but I think they were taken over by the picturehouse group, or whatever the company is called, a couple of years ago because they basically couldn't survive as a true independent and were going to go bust. I have a feeling they went slightly more mainstream (in terms of what they show) as a result.

And I'm also surprised that the staff are unionised. Maybe it's just a minority of them, and one would suspect not the minimum-wage ones. Would be interesting to know.

Yeah i wonder, how much they are making..If they own the site outright,i bet its loads.
A few years ago one of my mates worked there and help get the workers together at a time when the right on managers were cutting their wages, and getting Ken twatty fucking Loach into talk about the Hillingdon Hospital strikers.....

I wonder if they get any grants as well?

 

[teuchter]

The Mcjob line of argument. As Barbara Ehrenreich points out in "Nickel and Dimed" thats an argument business uses to pay there employees little-"Its not a "real" job.

It's not really "an argument business uses".

It's just the reality of the market. Why would they pay people more than they have to? That would be a commercial nonsense. They aren't a charity.

And I'm not saying that working at the Ritzy isn't a "real" job. It's a job that doesn't require too much experience or training, and it's not an especially unpleasant job. That's why people are prepared to do it for relatively low pay and that is why it suits the types of people I mentioned before.

The idea that because you are "flexible" you should get paid less is now common and doesnt hold up either.If anything it should mean the opposite.

I said the job itself is flexible, by which I mean there is the opportunity to work hours other than standard 9-5 Monday-Friday, and this suits certain people, in this case for example students or those who want to pursue other interests for part of their week.

All this "should get paid less", as if it's the employer that sets the going rate for a job. It's the employees that set the going rate according to how attractive the job is. There are other jobs which require a similar level of skill, but which are less attractive, and generally these get paid more.

I get this all the time.Lots of jobs are now not "real" jobs,its your fault for doing them and if you dont do them then your a lazy British worker unlike those hard working East Europeans(thats a new one I hear often.).

The "Eastern Europeans" are willing to do jobs that Brits aren't because however badly paid they might be for us (in terms of the standard of living that we are used to), it still represents an opportunity for them to improve their standard of living. I'm not saying that someone else being worse off than the lowest paid Brits makes things any better for those Brits, or that that is a good situation, or that I wouldn't like to see everyone worldwide have a good standard of life, but that's just the reality of how it is.

Anyway that's really a discussion for the politics forum and I'm sure it's been hashed out there plenty of times enough already.

I do recognise that there are problems with the levels of pay for many living in London (and of course all sorts of other places around the globe) and I would like to see the situation improved (as to quite how, I don't have the answers). However, I don't actually see the Ritzy staff as being the most needy of cases, because unlike other groups of workers I think they have the ability and opportunity to move on to other, better paid jobs in the future, or if necessary, now. I don't believe anyone is stuck working in the Ritzy because it's the only employment opportunity open to them.

But like I've already said, if the Ritzy staff manage to get themselves a better deal then fair play to them.

 

[teuchter]

the London poverty wage of £6.25 per hour (as set by the GLA).The poverty line is the mimimum amount needed to survive in London and takes into account increased living costs such as utilities and transport."

It may be a reasonable figure and there may be a strong argument for increasing the minimum wage to reflect it.

Nonetheless, whether it's the GLA or anyone else who came up with it, it's still a subjective figure, because it's always going to be a subjective judgement as to what counts as, for example, adequate accommodation, or a reasonable number of hours to work per week.

 

[Blagsta]

It's just the reality of the market.

What a shite excuse. The "market" is not an autonomous entity y'know - it is the result of people making decisions. Decisions to pay people shit wages in this case.

 

[Ol Nick]

What a shite excuse. The "market" is not an autonomous entity y'know - it is the result of people making decisions. Decisions to pay people shit wages in this case.

Why not read his post again and make an interesting reply? (He covered that question in what he wrote.)

 

[Gramsci]

It may be a reasonable figure and there may be a strong argument for increasing the minimum wage to reflect it.

Nonetheless, whether it's the GLA or anyone else who came up with it, it's still a subjective figure, because it's always going to be a subjective judgement as to what counts as, for example, adequate accommodation, or a reasonable number of hours to work per week.

No its not a subjective figure.Look at the website link i put up and it a figure calculated on living costs in London.Doubltless it will have to be revised at regular intervals.

 

[Brainaddict]

Saw the picket and signed the petition yesterday - hope it comes to something

 

[Gramsci]

Anyway that's really a discussion for the politics forum and I'm sure it's been hashed out there plenty of times enough already.

QUOTE]

You made the comments about work on this thread so u cant just tell me to go to politics section.You are voicing platitudes about work that need answering.

1)East Europeans(andI know a lot of them now how many do u know to make that assumption they are willing to work for less?) are being used as cheap labour either by being brought here or factories being transferred to Eastern Europe as is the case with Peugout.This is keeping wage inflation down in economic jargon.As for the assumption Brits wont do these jobs thats Bollox as is causing resentment.

2)So its the workers fault they get low wages .I mean really I never knew workers set the going rate for the jobs they do .You really have not taken any notice of my post have u?This is just middle of the road nonsense -as I differ in my views I should off to politics forum .In my experience other jobs of similar skill dont necessarily get paid more-which ones?

 

[Gramsci]

What a shite excuse. The "market" is not an autonomous entity y'know - it is the result of people making decisions. Decisions to pay people shit wages in this case.

Exactly.There is no such thing as a "Free Market" unless your a follower of Milton Friedman.

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

It's just the reality of the market. Why would they pay people more than they have to? That would be a commercial nonsense. They aren't a charity.

Teuchter's got the right idea. I saw these lazy strikers this morning - communists and the women with loose morals - and threw their leaflet in the gutter, yes sir. In my country they'd be sacked double quick pronto and taken off by the police.

 

[teuchter]

No its not a subjective figure.Look at the website link i put up and it a figure calculated on living costs in London.Doubltless it will have to be revised at regular intervals.

I did look at the website link you put up. In fact the link from there to the relevant GLA report ("A Fairer London: The living wage in London") was broken but I tracked that report down anyway.

Yes it is a subjective figure. To quote from page 6 of that report:

Two main approaches to calculate a living wage are considered. One approach, developed by the Family Budget Unit, estimates the costs of a ‘Low Cost but Acceptable’ (LCA) budget for a selection of typical or model families and calculates the wage required to meet those costs. This is termed the Basic Living Costs approach. The other is based on the distribution of income and will therefore be termed the Income Distribution approach.

Note the word "estimate" with regard to the Basic Living Costs approach. If they are based on an estimate they are subjective. There are subjective decisions made about what transport methods, standards of housing, etc etc. are "acceptable". Note that I am not saying that I think these decisions are necessarily unreasonable.

The Income Distribution approach is an objective calculation. However, it is still a relative figure. In fact it is by definition a relative figure - one defined by the lowest and highest pay at the time it is calculated, regardless of what standard of living it actually represents.

The GLA's "Living Wage" is based on taking an average of the two figures obtained by these two approaches. Another subjective decision. Who decides that they should both have equal weight? An academic question in this case because as it happens the figures are pretty close anyway.

 

[Gramsci]

Definately I saw them outside the Ritzy cavorting themselves-they were even enjoying themselves with a few bands .Some of the staff are rather tasty .

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

I did look at the website link you put up.

I looked at it too. It's propaganda to undermine the free market and leads directly to the scenes outside the Ritzy today. Politicians and do-gooders should keep clear of business decisions. Are you a businessman teuchter? You seem to have all the facts and figures at your fingertips.

 

[Gramsci]

Yes it is a subjective figure. To quote from page 6 of that report:
QUOTE]

Its using pretty standard stats to calculate an estimate a living wage.Hardly "subjective"-that makes it sound arbitary.If anything its an underestimate.The report says that a true living wage without the need to recourse to benefits to top up is around £9 -10 an hour.

 

[teuchter]

You made the comments about work on this thread so u cant just tell me to go to politics section.You are voicing platitudes about work that need answering.

I wasn't telling you to "go to politics section". It's just that I'm sure this has all been discussed ad nauseum there already, and didn't want to derail this thread, about a Brixton-specific issue, in that direction.

Anyway, as you ask -

1)East Europeans(andI know a lot of them now how many do u know to make that assumption they are willing to work for less?) are being used as cheap labour either by being brought here or factories being transferred to Eastern Europe as is the case with Peugout.This is keeping wage inflation down in economic jargon.As for the assumption Brits wont do these jobs thats Bollox as is causing resentment.

I'm making the assumption that they are willing to work for less because ... they do work for less, to the best of my knowledge. Seems logical to me. And if they don't work for less then why are you referring to them as "cheap labour"?

Yes, manufacturing is being transferred to Eastern Europe. And China. And lots of other places. Because people will work for less in these places, because of their economic situation, which is sadly not as good as ours, and, to put it crudely, they need the cash more desperately then equivalent workers in this country do. Shouldn't we be glad that some of our wealth is being redistributed to countries worse off than us? Even though it makes things a bit worse for us? I suspect you don't object to the principle of richer people in the UK being taxed more than poorer people in an effort to redistribute wealth in the same way?

2)So its the workers fault they get low wages .I mean really I never knew workers set the going rate for the jobs they do

I didn't ever say it was anyone's "fault" so I don't know why you're bringing a subjective term like that into the discussion. Well, I do, actually. Anyway, yes, workers (as a group) set the going rate for a job because it is them who decides how much they are prepared to do for so much money. At least, they set the lowest rate. If employers could set the lowest rate they would set it at zero, wouldn't they?

You really have not taken any notice of my post have u?This is just middle of the road nonsense -as I differ in my views I should off to politics forum

Yes, I have taken notice of your posts, which is why I replied to them in some detail. What do you mean "middle of the road nonsense"? I suppose that one person's "middle of the road nonsense" is another's reasoned view.

In my experience other jobs of similar skill dont necessarily get paid more-which ones?

Well... I just had a look through some of my old payslips from low-paid jobs I've had in the past.

In 2002 I was paid £4.20 an hour working in a pub.

In 2001 I was paid £5.75 an hour working in a park picking up litter.

I don't think that was because litter-picking requires more skill than pulling pints. It's because less people want to do it. It's boring.

To answer your question specifically, picking up litter (less skill than working in Ritzy) got paid more in 2001 than working in Ritzy gets paid now. I can't be bothered to do the inflation calculations, but it's not really necessary.

 

[teuchter]

Teuchter's got the right idea. I saw these lazy strikers this morning - communists and the women with loose morals - and threw their leaflet in the gutter, yes sir. In my country they'd be sacked double quick pronto and taken off by the police.

I'm glad my comments have inspired you so much that you registered to U75 and made this thought-provoking and constructive first post.

 

[teuchter]

Its using pretty standard stats to calculate an estimate a living wage.Hardly "subjective"-that makes it sound arbitary.If anything its an underestimate.The report says that a true living wage without the need to recourse to benefits to top up is around £9 -10 an hour.

I'm not saying it's arbitary. I've already said twice that I don't think it's unreasonable and I would probably support the idea of raising the minimum wage in London.

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

I'm glad my comments have inspired you so much that you registered to U75 and made this thought-provoking and constructive first post.

I registered a few weeks ago while looking for a new church in Brixton. I left my former church after the pastor spoke in favour of "gays." Which is your church?

 

[teuchter]

I registered a few weeks ago while looking for a new church in Brixton. I left my former church after the pastor spoke in favour of "gays." Which is your church?

Bye-bye! Cheerio! Nice knowing you!

Try harder next time, hey?

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

Bye-bye! Cheerio! Nice knowing you!

Try harder next time, hey?

If by "try harder" you mean respond positively to the disgusting advances of "mikeinworthing" and "friedaweed" you, sir, have another thing coming.

 

[friedaweed]

If by "try harder" you mean respond positively to the disgusting advances of "mikeinworthing" and "friedaweed" you, sir, have another thing coming.

Oiy stop cross threading. Read the FAQ's el phobio

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

I know. Teuchter is one of those "Cameron Conservatives" I've been reading about. Good on economics, bad on social matters. Let me tell you, it's a mistake for you British Tories to go soft on gays, drugs, single parents etc. You can't run a strong economy without moral discipline. Any chance of a church forum btw? I can't believe “gayboys” mikeinworthing and friedaweed are representative.

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

Oiy stop cross threading. Read the FAQ's el phobio

Stop following me about.

 

[mikeinworthing]

I know. Teuchter is one of those "Cameron Conservatives" I've been reading about. Good on economics, bad on social matters. Let me tell you, it's a mistake for you British Tories to go soft on gays, drugs, single parents etc. You can't run a strong economy without moral discipline. Any chance of a church forum btw? I can't believe “gayboys” mikeinworthing and friedaweed are representative.

I spotted a troll, and now I see it’s a cross-thread troll.

Posts reported – nice knowing you – goodbye!

 

[friedaweed]

Stop following me about.

I can't help it love i find your turn of phrase so adorable

Any chance of a church forum btw? I can't believe “gayboys” mikeinworthing and friedaweed are representative.

Hehe keep posting i miss you when you're banned

 

[H.Isiyoshindika]

I spotted a troll, and now I see it’s a cross-thread troll.

Posts reported – nice knowing you – goodbye!

I've already told your "friend" to stop following me about. How do I report a post?