Rip it up and start again

[In Bloom]

The basic function of intellectual activity
Is discerning the differences between A and B.

Do enlighten us, oh wise one, what makes the BBC better than commercial channels?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Frankly, how is the BBC any better than any of the commercial channels? And why does it need to be paid for with a flat tax like the license fee, if it is necessary?

Spoken like a true blue Tory!

 

[poster342002]

Not everyone who doesn't feel the need to pour uncritcal sycophantic praise on the BBC is a tory.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Not everyone who doesn't feel the need to pour uncritcal sycophantic praise on the BBC is a tory.

Don’t die of over use of the rolly eye!

I know, I just find it amusing how the political spectrum bends back on it’s self sometimes. What IB said is almost word for word the kind of thing the rightwing/pro Murdoch types come out with. Makes me think the BBC must be doing something right if they’re pissing off so many people…

 

[poster342002]

Don’t die of over use of the rolly eye!

I know, I just find it amusing how the political spectrum bends back on it’s self sometimes. What IB said is almost word for word the kind of thing the rightwing/pro Murdoch types come out with. Makes me think the BBC must be doing something right if they’re pissing off so many people…

I think too many people are falling into the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" trap.

A pox on the lot of them - they're all capitalist establishemnt support infrastructure.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I think too many people are falling into the "my enemies' enemy is my friend" trap.

I think there's definetely something to this, sometimes it feels like its becoming the defining ideology of our time...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Do enlighten us, oh wise one, what makes the BBC better than commercial channels?

Its website? Radio Four And Three?
You're seeing only what you want to see.

 

[poster342002]

Its website? Radio Four And Three?
You're seing only what you want to see.

Have you been reading too much Rupert Bear?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I've not read him in more than thirty years:
I just got bored with prose, which is for squares.

 

[poster342002]

I've not read him in more than thirty years:
I just got bored with prose, which is for squares.

2/10. 'years' and 'squares' barely even rhymes.

 

[greenman]

Could'nt we agree without contestation
To fund the beeb from progressive taxation
Then it would not hit the poor
Keeping detectors from the door
And Murdoch should be kept at bay
No matter what the Tories say.........

 

[In Bloom]

Don’t die of over use of the rolly eye!

I know, I just find it amusing how the political spectrum bends back on it’s self sometimes. What IB said is almost word for word the kind of thing the rightwing/pro Murdoch types come out with. Makes me think the BBC must be doing something right if they’re pissing off so many people…

Who fucking cares?

I'm sure if you were to put forward a defence of liberal democracy (for example) it'd look suspiciously similar to stuff trotted out by right wingers. You don't see me screaming "Tory!" at every opportunity in a pathetic attempt to avoid adressing people's arguments.

In any case, unless I'm much mistaken Murdoch and the Tories aren't exactly adverse to flat taxes themselves.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Who fucking cares?

Spoken like a true red leftwing reactionary!

 

[tbaldwin]

Crikey...Another good thread.....goes nowhere shock.......

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Grave digger.

 

[mk12]

Donna Ferentes.

Are you going to write all your posts in poem-fashion, from now on?

i hope not. his posts were irritating before, he'll be 100 times worse if he carries on like this.

What IB said is almost word for word the kind of thing the rightwing/pro Murdoch types come out with.

Trouble is, a lot of the left just have a kneejerk reaction to the right and or/ dominant views in society. The right is against immigration, the left MUST be FOR it (for example). The BNP criticises Islam, the SWP refuse to criticise it.

It also shows you don't have much to say on this topic, you're just trying to criticise In Bloom without dealing with what he has said at all.

 

[winjer]

The BNP criticises Islam, the SWP refuse to criticise it.

Not even the SWP is that stupid. For example:

But socialists cannot give support to the Islamists either. That would be to call for the swapping of one form of oppression for another, to react to the violence of the state by abandoning the defence of ethnic and religious minorities, women and gays, to collude in scapegoating that makes it possible for capitalist exploitation to continue unchecked providing it takes “Islamic” forms. It would be to abandon the goal of independent socialist politics, based on workers in struggle organising all the oppressed and exploited behind them, for a tail-ending of a petty bourgeois utopianism which cannot even succeed in its own terms.

The Islamists are not our allies. They are representatives of a class which seeks to influence the working class, and which, in so far as it succeeds, pulls workers either in the direction of futile and disastrous adventurism or in the direction of a reactionary capitulation to the existing system – or often to the first followed by the second.

[...]

When we do find ourselves on the same side as the Islamists, part of our job is to argue strongly with them, to challenge them – and not just on their organisations’ attitude to women and minorities, but also on the fundamental question of whether what is needed is charity from the rich or an overthrow of existing class relations.

taken from the 'The Prophet and the Proletariat'.

 

[mk12]

...many years ago.

But socialists cannot give support to the Islamists either

Oh ah Hezbollah

 

[poster342002]

Trouble is, a lot of the left just have a kneejerk reaction to the right and or/ dominant views in society. The right is against immigration, the left MUST be FOR it (for example). The BNP criticises Islam, the SWP refuse to criticise it.

Indeed. This is pretty much what I said on another thread:

I sometimes get the feeling that the left gets the impression it shouldn't campaign on those issues because the right is doing so. A sort of looking-glass logic that goes: "The right is campaigning on such-and-such issue. Therefore we must not campaign on this issue - because if we do, it'll mean that we're right wing".

In effect, the left allows the parameters of their entire agenda to be set by the right.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Perhaps they have a guideline that's invincible:
Whatever it is, they're against it on principle.

 

[durruti02]

Not even the SWP is that stupid. For example:


taken from the 'The Prophet and the Proletariat'.

er note the date of that publication .. 1994 yes 1994 ... now they have lost all ability to criticise .. hypocrits

 

[brasicritique]

in the meantime i'll carry on supporting the licence fee AND campaigning for methods of alleviating poverty that might actually make any difference.

Do tell?

Are you campaigning for re-nationalisation of gas and electricity ? Abolishing tuition fees? the abolition of the council tax? affordable housing? just asking

In fact, this issue alone is an example of why the left fails to gain much support amongs the poor; it's percieved as being in favour of many of the very things that cause hassle for them.

I Totally agree. I think that this stems from the fact that many on this website and the majority of those on the left in general are arguably part of the system that oppresses the poor in this country hence its decline.

Makes me think the BBC must be doing something right if they’re pissing off so many people…

Pissing off the poor, and the most venerable in society, single parents for example both in and out of work on low income as they can afford to pay £180 a year which is what the BBC want.Logical

A pox on the lot of them - they're all capitalist establishemnt support infrastructure

Exactly.If the left or anyone for that matter really want to change society for the better then they have to tackle inequality now, not wait for the revolution. The lack of interest in the growing ineqaulity in this country and the MC can be summed up thus ; as long as i get my cocaine and hash i do give a f..

 

[poster342002]

Well said, brasicattack!

It's heartening to see that the there now do seem to be more people who've sussed it out. I'm hearing your sort of sentiment from people more and more - and just a year ago this wasn't the case.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

More mouthing off
I can't but scoff.