Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Are you saying that fantasy is, by it's nature a racist genre? I'd take very deep exception to that. Or are you saying that anything in fantasy cannot be racist? Which seems equally silly. Please explain.
RIP David Eddings.
- Thread starter ChrisC
- Start date
Are you saying that fantasy is, by it's nature a racist genre? I'd take very deep exception to that. Or are you saying that anything in fantasy cannot be racist? Which seems equally silly. Please explain.
Yeah read the Belgariad or whatever, and that was about my lot...
That's what I've never got about Tolkien. The orks are, like, monsters.
Furthermore, Strider is described as dark and swarthy when we first meet him..> that kind of blows the argument out of the water.
He's basically the Enid Blyton of fantasy...
Are you trolling?
More specifics, with Eddings examples available here:
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/41660-racial-stereotypes-in-fantasy-and-david-eddings.html
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
The orcs are a metaphor for the inustrialised proletariat, the easterlings for arabs, the hobbits as petite-bourgoisies. The Dunlanders are deluded Taffs taken in by Sauron (stalin). Elves and High Men are the aristocracy. Rohirrim as the 'good' pastoral w/c
Nobody has managed to work out what the fuck Tom Bombadil was
The orcs are a metaphor for the inustrialised proletariat, the easterlings for arabs, the hobbits as petite-bourgoisies. The Dunlanders are deluded Taffs taken in by Sauron (stalin). Elves and High Men are the aristocracy. Rohirrim as the 'good' pastoral w/c
Nobody has managed to work out what the fuck Tom Bombadil was
Orc is acronym for Oxford Rugby Club innit.
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
As you appear to be intent on continuing with this line, let's look at some of the racial stereotypes he used:
The tolnedrans. Based on Rome, and portrayed as warmongering bastards who killed an entire nation (The Marags)
The Mimbrates and Asturisan - based on English lore and history, and portrayed as idiotic warmongering bastards who killed an entire nation (The Wacites)
The Algars - based on either Khan's Mongols or Native American Indians, and one of the "hero" nations.
In short, you appear to be conveniently skipping over the way he's happy to portray European based stereotypes in a negative light, and asian/american indian stereotypes in a positive light. That's a funny form of racism.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
To be a racist writer one doesn't have to be all racist, all the time. That would be asking somewhat more consistency from Eddings than he ever spent on working out his fictional world or plots tbh.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
He's also described as 'feeling foul' at that point
Not to worry, after a good shave and a wash and a haircut he's revealed for the proper Westerner that he is.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
The orcs are a metaphor for the inustrialised proletariat, the easterlings for arabs, the hobbits as petite-bourgoisies. The Dunlanders are deluded Taffs taken in by Sauron (stalin). Elves and High Men are the aristocracy. Rohirrim as the 'good' pastoral w/c
Nobody has managed to work out what the fuck Tom Bombadil was
Rohirrim are actually pretty closely based on the Ostrogoths, who were allowed to settle in former Roman land (sound familiar?) and their leader Theodric (sound familiar?) who died after being crushed by his horse (sound familiar?) in a huge battle after allying with the Western Roman Empire to face the hordes of Huns from the East (probably just a coincidence).
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
Any odds you can actually give a little more reasoning and some evidence of this racism you keep accusing him of?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
He's also described as 'feeling foul' at that point
Nah, feels fair but looks foul.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Fair enough. Swarthy appearance is still covered by 'looks foul', though, isn't it?
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Already done so, just read the rest of the thread and you'll see it I reckon.
I really wasn't trolling. I just think Eddings is to inane to really be taken seriously and analysed in this way.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
as Barthez intoned 'death of the author'
we take the work as it's own artefact and divorced from the writer.
Hence many condemn Enid Blyton's works as horribly reactionary, and explain why at length
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Nah, the Breelander is described as swarthy. Strider is described as 'strange-looking' and 'weather-beaten'.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
also: Sarumans breeding of goblins and evil men: A cry against miscegenation?
revol68
what, fucking what?
I wouldn't say LOTR is racist as so much as reactionary Young Englander wank.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
it's plenty of both, but very well written and constructed, unlike most of the garbage that came afterwards, like Eddings' by-the-numbers wordfarts.
revol68
what, fucking what?
The orcs are a metaphor for the inustrialised proletariat, the easterlings for arabs, the hobbits as petite-bourgoisies. The Dunlanders are deluded Taffs taken in by Sauron (stalin). Elves and High Men are the aristocracy. Rohirrim as the 'good' pastoral w/c
Nobody has managed to work out what the fuck Tom Bombadil was
you stole that from me you lil fuck!
revol68
what, fucking what?
if by well written you mean coming down in irrelvant and boring description that could be much better filled in by the readers imagination.
The again Tolkein readers are Aspy nerds...
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
Like bollocks you have. Your only detail so far:
"in Eddings' universe the 'evil' races were clearly based on Russians, Chinese and Arabs."
So, how about a little detail to your accusations of racism, there's a good spud.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
did I hell, Belushi convinced me that the taffs were dunlanders. You convinced me on the orcs= industrialised proles bit.
The rest I reasoned for myself
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's far easier to pull CS Lewis apart than Tolkien.
You need to also bear in mind that Tolkien couldn't stand allegory, so all these parallels with industrialised proletariats etc are, in Tolkien's words confusing " 'applicability' with 'allegory': but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author".
You need to also bear in mind that Tolkien couldn't stand allegory, so all these parallels with industrialised proletariats etc are, in Tolkien's words confusing " 'applicability' with 'allegory': but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author".
revol68
what, fucking what?
sounds like bollix to me.
if you read any politics into it it's purely your own, there is no way the story and imaginery is connected to real world events blah blah.
Yeah yeah fuck off you dead old cunt.
