Riot Like A Tibetan!

[agricola]

Its certainly looking very worrying now, with journalists expelled, the country cut off from the outside world, and their history of cracking down on dissent.

 

[purves grundy]

For sure there'll be be no proportionate force, no mercy, no rights.

 

[The Black Hand]

To government leaders anybody who opposes their crimes and control is a terrorist.

Leaders kill and control, people sometimes stand up to it. Then the people are terrorists. C'est la vie.

History is writeen by the winning side?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I can remember a very tedious conversation at the old Urban Free Festival in Deptford, dreadful crusties in the old anti-CJB days - oh the glories of the past!

it wasn't mad andy was it

 

[The Black Hand]

it wasn't mad andy was it

Damn you Garfield - you ruined my full house occupancy of all the threads in the Politics, protest and current affairs Forum(s)!! I held that for 11 whole minutes too...

 

[weltweit]

I wonder whether there will be Tibetan entrants into the Olympics? or do they just count as part of China?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Damn you Garfield - you ruined my full house occupancy of all the threads in the Politics, protest and current affairs Forum(s)!! I held that for 11 whole minutes too...

sorry .....

1

 

[CharlieAddict]

well i hope china does well in the olympics.

as with such events, i'll be celebrating the sports and not the politics.
Go China!

 

[purves grundy]

as with such events, i'll be celebrating the sports and not the politics.

'The politics' makes it sounds like a load of suits wagging fingers at each other over the dispatch box, rather than a bloodbath of innocents, denial of self-determination, and ethnocide. But, yeah, millions of other people will also be 'celebrating the sports' and that's fair enough, up to you. Just recognise that it's the right of other people to use such an event to highlight what the hosts are doing to them.

 

[CharlieAddict]

Just recognise that it's the right of other people to use such an event to highlight what the hosts are doing to them.

people in the west can highlight what they want.

but once in China, the CPC is the governing power and like it or not, their law and institutions are to be respected.

 

[ymu]

I note that whatever the protesters in Tibet are doing, they are certainly not practising non-violent direct action.

Will they now be disowned by their Western supporters?

Or is it only activists in the west who are supposed to always be non-violent?

You seem to misunderstand the point of NVDA, and the fact that it's different from pacifism.

Some movements which use NVDA have to commit to it completely - for example, the ISM in Palestine. Violent actions would defeat the whole purpose of the organisation, which exists largely because it's too fucking dangerous for most Palestinians to take part in their own struggle. But this is a purely tactical approach - ISM recognises the right of Palestinians to resist the occupation via armed struggle.

Other types of organisation use both NVDA and violence. Resistance in Palestine has always been dominated by NVDA - it was the dominating feature of the first intifada and a much larger part of this intifada than is commonly reported. Hamas, Al-Jihad, Fatah, Tamsin et al have all led non-violent actions as they have led violent ones. There is nothing remotely contradictory in an organisation having "political" and "military" wings - it's quite a common set-up, as it happens.

NVDA is a tactical thing, not a moral one.

 

[purves grundy]

people in the west can highlight what they want.

but once in China, the CPC is the governing power and like it or not, their law and institutions are to be respected.

All laws and institutions must be respected, no matter whether they are worthy of respect or not?

Someone should've told Martin Luther King.

 

[Lea]

...

 

[CharlieAddict]

All laws and institutions must be respected, no matter whether they are worthy of respect or not?

Someone should've told Martin Luther King.

america is different. blackness and civil liberties were issues in a country that had a history of practicing equality.

china never claimed to be such practitioners.

 

[CharlieAddict]

i may not agree with china but i respect how they are adapting to the 21st century. and i like how the chinese are becoming a superpower when the west had a 150year headstart.

sure the chinese should be exposed for the wrong doings to Tibet - just like the UK/USA to Afghan, Iraq...

 

[purves grundy]

america is different. blackness and civil liberties were issues in a country that had a history of practicing equality.

china never claimed to be such practitioners.

How is America different? How can you have a history of practising equality when you have slavery and its institutionalised aftermath? Not having practised what is correct to practise is no excuse. How would countries otherwise change for the better?

I don't respect the way China is adapting to the 21st century, in the same way I disrespect what other countries are doing in the name of 'adapting' to a new reality, say, post 911. Personally, I despise the way they plunder Burma and sell weapons to its military junta. And many people will highlight this, and also the human rights abuses within China, as the Olympics draws closer. What China has done in the past makes no difference to what is right or wrong.

Anyway, China have indeed claimed to be 'such practitioners' through signing a number of human rights treaties, such as the International Covenent on Civil and Political Rights which, amongst other points, asserts that:

Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

When people speak out, they have the right to have this speech protected by the state, not quashed. If the state doesn't do this, people have the right to demand the state change its behaviour.

 

[frogwoman]

absolutely purves ...

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

america is different. blackness and civil liberties were issues in a country that had a history of practicing equality.

china never claimed to be such practitioners.

Indeed. The mentality of the Chinese is quite difficult to understand when viewed from outside. It's only when you live here that you start to see a twisted 'logic' to it all...

 

[CharlieAddict]

Indeed. The mentality of the Chinese is quite difficult to understand when viewed from outside. It's only when you live here that you start to see a twisted 'logic' to it all...

this pretty much explains that

 

[frogwoman]

this pretty much explains that

to be fair, its not just china that participates in this sillyness ... its very similar to a lot of other nationalistic videos i've watched from various countries ...

 

[Barking_Mad]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/22/tibet.china1

 

[frogwoman]

saw that link, i think i even linked to it myself

 

[CharlieAddict]

interesting article that

 

[frogwoman]

i think that kind of extreme nationalism in general is just weird tbh and there are bound to be some equally insane people on the tibetan side ...

 

[frogwoman]

Oh my god. some of this anti-Dalai Lama propaganda is fucking mental

Commentary: Stop the hand behind Lhasa terror


www.chinaview.cn 2008-03-15 16:51:51 Print

Special report: Dalai's separatist activities condemned

By Xinhua writer Wang Jiaquan

BEIJING, March 15 (Xinhua) -- The Nobel laurel was tainted, and the U.S. Congressional Gold Medal proved nothing but a fig leaf of the Dalai Lama when on Friday rioters, backed by the self-proclaimed peace preacher, turned the tranquil holy city of Lhasa into a land of terror.

And the intention harbored behind the monk's claim of seeking "real or greater autonomy" of Tibet also proved hypocritical when hundreds of his followers yelled independence, attacked police, smashed windows, robbed shops, and set cars and a mosque ablaze.

Yet, this impudent politician did not show any sign of shame when he disassociated himself from the conspiracy as an innocent monk, leaving his followers standing as cat's paws by persuading them, in a canting manner, "not to resort to violence" reportedly in a statement after the serene abode of the gods was disturbed.

At least 10 people were confirmed dead in the rioting, while the number of injured and other losses kept rising.

When a woman who dared not to step out of her office near a looted and burnt supermarket told me through mobile phone short messages that Lhasa was cloaked in an atmosphere of horror, I believed the hand behind the cat's paws was a master terror maker.

But the monk in a crimson cassock has many tools for disguise to survive the international criticism against violence and terror: his preaching of peace, tolerance and benevolence to the Nobel honor and U.S. medal which added to his undeserved aura.

Now the blaze and blood in Lhasa has unclad the nature of the Dalai Lama, and it's time for the international community to recheck their stance toward the group under the camouflage of non-violence, if they do not want to be willingly misled.

The Dalai Lama and his clique have never for a day refrained from violence and terror. His childhood teacher, an Austrian, was a Nazi, and it's no secret that for quite a long time after he fled to India, he kept a force, armed by his western patron, for separatist activities. The peace advocator had also shown no interest in the global campaigns against U.S. wars on Afghanistan and Iraq.

The international community, however, seems to have neglected, or, be unwilling, to face the facts. Continuous tolerance to violence undoubtedly means appeasement to terror, while offering platforms for the rhetoric lama to sell his deceitful philosophy will only encourage him to drift further away from the negotiation framework on the Tibet issue that the Chinese government has repeatedly promised to keep open.

There are always countries, organizations and individuals who would like to act as moral defenders when anything they don't like to see happens. Now it's time again for them to stand out, but on whom their whip falls is a test to justice.

As for the Dalai Lama, I never disbelieve the ability and power of the so-called "His Holiness" in praying for peace, but the violent scene in Lhasa has given me the very reason to doubt the always-smiling monk's sincerity.

 

[CharlieAddict]

what's mental is when you look at some of the news reports coming from Fox/BBC. it's fuckin' amazing how a chinese ambulance suddenly becomes a police van! or the wounded magically becomes a prisoner!

 

[frogwoman]

what's mental is when you look at some of the news reports coming from Fox/BBC. it's fuckin' amazing how a chinese ambulance suddenly becomes a police van! or the wounded magically becomes a prisoner!

Lol I know! I saw that as well

I really haven't made my mind up on the whole Tibet thing tbh ... on one hand yes it is terrible but on the other hand i think there is so much propaganda on both sides it's hard to establish what the facts are, and i don't really want to say which side is right because i thought the racially motivated attacks on Chinese people were disgraceful, but then so is military occupation ............ arrgh!

 

[purves grundy]

what's mental is when you look at some of the news reports coming from Fox/BBC. it's fuckin' amazing how a chinese ambulance suddenly becomes a police van! or the wounded magically becomes a prisoner!

What's 'mental' is that intelligent, critical people would choose either Xinhua News Agency or Fox as a source of news or opinion. Useful for a pop-shot but little else. So what's your point CA?

 

[CharlieAddict]

What's 'mental' is that intelligent, critical people would choose either Xinhua News Agency or Fox as a source of news or opinion. Useful for a pop-shot but little else. So what's your point CA?

the main channels as well - BBC and Sky!
just observations of the new reports i'm seeing.

i'm not protecting the Chinese government's actions - cos i can't.

but am interested on how some news agencies come up with the numbers when no journalists are allowed into tibet!!

 

[PaulOK]

The whole "Boycott the Olympics" campaign is a sham. I bet many of the people proposing such are doing so on Chinese made computers whilst wearing Chinese manufactured clothing etc. China is central to globalised Capitalism. The reason why the Western economies have enjoyed historically low inflation over the past 15 years or so is because workers in places like Shenzen work for wages which are, to Western eyes, very low. Do you really think the Murdochs, Bush's and Brown's of this world are gonna risk all that to help out a backward, marginalised Asian minority who were shitting in the streets 30 years ago? No, me neither.

It's important not to get too misty eyed about the pre-1950 Tibetan regime. It wasn't this 'Hippy' Shangri-La where everybody sat around and laced Daisys through each other's hair that the 'Free Tibet' Campaign would want you to believe. It was content to leave the mass of it's population in abject poverty, it tolerated Slavery, Feudalism and permitted the practice of cannibalism for certain Buddhist cults. Buddhism has always enjoyed a remarkably good press in the West but certain strands of it are as nasty, violent and bigotted as any other religion.

I've been to China (including on one occasion, Tibet) many times and the Chinese Communist Party ain't going anywhere. Sure, the Chinese may complain about corruption but they are not going to risk the real gains they've made by opening the Pandora's box and removing the CCP. In fact, the rioting of a marginal minority may have the effect of binding the Han (90% of the Chinese population) to the government.

A lot of the orchestrated Hue and Cry over Tibet we are going to suffer over the next 6 months is going to take the form, I fear, of barely disguised Sino-Phobia. "Yellow Peril" nonsense which will actually have the effect of strengthening the grip of the CCP in the short to medium term.