Revolutionary Communist Group

[chilango]

I like this thread.

 

[Idris2002]

It not that the better of sections of the working class are a fixed entity written off but that section will shrink as British Imperialism does and as the countries it exploits throws them out or nationalises their assets.

Did you type this while wearing elephant loons and a kipper tie?

 

[scawenb]

of course most "migrants prisoners the unemployed" are w/c .. BUT the rcgfrfi say that working unionised w/c are scum essentially

Though you did say that the RCG "define themselves apart from the rest of ther UK Left by arguing the entire UK w/c is complicit with the bosses etc etc etc blah blah blah"

yaafe states what i allege

Perhaps I misunderstood the Yaffe quotes but that isn't what he is saying. He argues that the opportunists are scum not the working class and not the unionised working class.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I had a discussion with one of them once who told me that as an Irish immigrant I had a particularly significant role to play in the British revolution. The fact that I was a postgraduate student at the LSE and not a casual labourer didn't seem seem to register with her.

 

[thegonzokid]

Don't they organise the Rock Around the Blockade? They held a meeting last year with a high-ranking member of the Cuban Communist Party who was friends with Che. I asked an awkward question about human rights abuses which they didn't take too kindly to.

 

[scawenb]

I had a discussion with one of them once who told me that as an Irish immigrant I had a particularly significant role to play in the British revolution. The fact that I was a postgraduate student at the LSE and not a casual labourer didn't seem seem to register with her.

Ever since the Chartists there have been revolutionaries from the Irish community in Britain, even educated journalists and lawyers, precisely because they know the role of British colonialism back in the mother country - from birth, from family or from taking an interest. More recently, lots of anti-fascists had a Irish background. They also know that Irish people in Britian live in the poorest conditions, have lower wages and are more likely to come up against state repression - even if it doesn't effect them personally.

But equally there have always been Irish reactionaries, Irish businessmen, state-funded "community leaders" and the purely disinterested - so there is no reason why just being Irish makes you revolutionary. Tellingly, the radicalism of the Irish community in Britain has declined as the stuggle in Ireland has declined.

 

[butchersapron]

When did you joih the RCG scawenB? The 1870s?

 

[tar1984]

lol thread is full of lol.

Nah, thanks for all yer answers.

 

[imposs1904]

I had a discussion with one of them once who told me that as an Irish immigrant I had a particularly significant role to play in the British revolution. The fact that I was a postgraduate student at the LSE and not a casual labourer didn't seem seem to register with her.

 

[audiotech]

And they have the best looking women

Objectivist!

 

[nightbreed]

A brief head count today on my way to work and at work didn't indicate that anyone was straining at the leash to overthrow capitalism. However it is Friday and perhaps people were bouyed up by the thoughts of the weekend. Without wanting to really enter the world of mystic meg revolutionary situations ( or indeed ,for those who fondly remebered the 5th International,pre revolutionary situations) this sort of tosh above has always led to a focus on the most marginal and leads to the conclusion that the working class has been bought off and that fresh blood must be found to provide the proffesional revolutionaries with the motor for change hence third worldism, students, race, gender, prisoners , migrants etc. All of whom may be or not be ,as the case arises ,members of the working class. Then again a lot of our revolutionary chums prefer life in the margins.


Called me old fashioned but I still think the concept of the working class being central to any significant reform or come the great day, revolution as still having some relevance and at the heart of marxism.

Somehow thats not how Marx meant it.

Marx also talked about 'conditions determine consciousness'!!

 

[JHE]

But just because workers are unionised it doesn't mean they are straining at the leash to overthrow capitalism.

Well, no, of course, most trade unionists are NOT trying to overthrow capitalism. Has anyone suggested anything so obviously false? Do you come across many such deluded people? I don't.

But equally, you silly sausage, the people the RCG ideologues imagine as the vanguard of the revolution - (un-unionised?) black people, Irish people, prisoners, immigrants - are also NOT 'straining at the leash to overthrow capitalism'.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It's easy to laugh about it now, but she honestly didn't seem to care about the fact that I'd never even seen an Irish Centre. let alone spent time inside one. My Irishness alone was enough to confer on me a certain revolutionary hard core.

I kept trying to explain that an LSE postrgrad was unlikely to be all that oppressed, but she was having none of it. When I explained my views on working class unity, she told me that I was suffering from false consciousness. This is entirely true, by the way.

 

[audiotech]

well, so do the BNP...

 

[durruti02]

I had a discussion with one of them once who told me that as an Irish immigrant I had a particularly significant role to play in the British revolution. The fact that I was a postgraduate student at the LSE and not a casual labourer didn't seem seem to register with her.

 

[durruti02]

Well, no, of course, most trade unionists are NOT trying to overthrow capitalism. Has anyone suggested anything so obviously false? Do you come across many such deluded people? I don't.

But equally, you silly sausage, the people the RCG ideologues imagine as the vanguard of the revolution - (un-unionised?) black people, Irish people, prisoners, immigrants - are also NOT 'straining at the leash to overthrow capitalism'.

their position is a characture .. and they fail to understand that the poorest most repressed most alienated are also the first to take what is offerred as they have had so little .. it is just crap politics

 

[tim]

Ilove there consistency!

On 15 February the national referendum to remove limits on periods of office of elected representatives produced a 55% vote in favour, with 45% against. This important victory demonstrated the successful political consolidation of the new United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV). President Chavez is now able to fight a campaign for re-election in 2012 as leader of a socialist party with a majority in Congress, a great step forward from the previous cross-party alliances.

On 20 May the Colombian Senate began the process of allowing a referendum on whether President Uribe can stand for a third term. This is part of a ruling class strategy to complete the creation of a centralised state with an iron grip throughout the country.

http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/frfipages/208/FRFI_208_ven.html

http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/frfipages/209/FRFI_209_col.html

 

[scawenb]

Ilove there consistency!
http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/frfipages/208/FRFI_208_ven.html

http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/frfipages/209/FRFI_209_col.html

One is a progressive - perhaps even socialistist state in their view - which they support and the other is a reactionary US funded anti-working class state aiming to violently destroy the FARC. Their's isn't a unique position on the Left or in Latin America.

 

[scawenb]

their position is a characture .. and they fail to understand that the poorest most repressed most alienated are also the first to take what is offerred as they have had so little .. it is just crap politics

This thread is not short on charicatures. They do support unionised workers as they did throughout the Miners Strike. It was a better off section of miners and the trade union movement who betrayed them not the RCG.

They don't argue that the most repressed and alientated are the most revolutionary - but that the better off sections of the working class and their middle class allies are the least revolutionary and hold back the rest.

 

[The39thStep]

Somehow thats not how Marx meant it.

Marx also talked about 'conditions determine consciousness'!!

Explain a bit more .............

 

[tim]

Ever since the Chartists there have been revolutionaries from the Irish community in Britain, even educated journalists and lawyers, precisely because they know the role of British colonialism back in the mother country - from birth, from family or from taking an interest. More recently, lots of anti-fascists had a Irish background. They also know that Irish people in Britian live in the poorest conditions, have lower wages and are more likely to come up against state repression - even if it doesn't effect them personally.

But equally there have always been Irish reactionaries, Irish businessmen, state-funded "community leaders" and the purely disinterested - so there is no reason why just being Irish makes you revolutionary. Tellingly, the radicalism of the Irish community in Britain has declined as the stuggle in Ireland has declined.

What now the green and orange fascists have sat down to divi up the spoils of devolved government and foresworn sectarian slaughter?

 

[tim]

One is a progressive - perhaps even socialistist state in their view - which they support and the other is a reactionary US funded anti-working class state aiming to violently destroy the FARC. Their's isn't a unique position on the Left or in Latin America.

Both states run by populist annd popular presidents both of whom have held referenda to abolish presidential term limits. In one case the RCG thinks this is jolly good and in the other jolly bad.

As to the FARC they're hardly the purest of revolutionaruies around are they? They like their cut of the drugs trade, are keen on kidnapping and have done their fair share of killing of civillians.

 

[cantsin]

Didn't the RCG have a brief 15 mins of fame when a refugee took sanctuary in a church who they were solidarising with?

I quite like the newspaper. I recall once waiting in a room for a job interview, around me people were reading The Guardian and Daily Mail, I proudly read my Fight Racism! Fight Imperialism!

Some of their books are quite good in my opinion. There's one they sell on the Strangeways riots that is introduced by Michael Mansfield QC & another one 'Labour - A Party Fit for Imperialism'

Also support Lenin's theory of the labour aristocracy. attack other left wing organisations for being wedded to Labour & Social democracy.

Like many small left groups they prioritise certain areas where they have a niche - prisoner solidarity, picketing M&S etc.

A close friend of mine who later joined the SWP was briefly involved with them, she met them, as a school student, because they were doing regular pickets of the South Africa Embassy during the anti-apartheid movement, told me that most of the main people were very intelligent oxbridge graduates, she fell out with them after having an argument on Tibet, to convince her of theline they gave her a book on Tibet written by the government of the People's Republic of China & they seemed to love any 'People's regime whether in Africa or Asia etc. She also said they operate the 'probation membership' style. You can't join immediately, you have to be educated and prove yourself etc.

I also went from the non stop picket of the embassy to the SWP - the RCG lot who ran it were a good bunch ( there's far more "Proper Wankers " to be getting on with out there tbh ) , though weird politics .

During the Poll Tax riots, one of their main faces, lovely guy called Rich got absolutley battered by the OB, all caught on camera, they took their chance for a bit of revenge, didnt look so brave when chased around the corner by an angry mob, snuck in through a side door into a welcoming embassy ( all filmed / broadcast ) - of course the embassy was later set fire to, but it didn't go up, the only real dissappointment on that day

 

[TopCat]

They used to be the stalwarts of the non stop picket at South Africa House during the Apartheid years. They seemed very sect like. They all used to know these struggle songs from South Africa and loved singing them whilst bouncing up and down in that way the South African activists loved. They were completely unaware of UK popular culture though. I suggested to them that everyone sing the (number 1 in the charts at the time) Free Nelson Mandela by the Specials AKA and they had never heard of it.

They could not scrap to save their lives though. I was on the picket one Remembrance Sunday when the NF used to have their march and the picket got attacked. It was 90 to one in our favour. The RCG members to a man/woman legged it leaving me and one other to fight it out with the NF. I got nicked for affray and then slagged on my way out of the police station by assembled RCG for some counter revolutionary crime or other (like showing them up to be pussies).

Ah fond memories.

 

[TopCat]

Aye that - not a bad book as it goes. Got a copy I intend to get rid of if anyone wants it

Can I have it?

 

[cantsin]

They used to be the stalwarts of the non stop picket at South Africa House during the Apartheid years. They seemed very sect like. They all used to know these struggle songs from South Africa and loved singing them whilst bouncing up and down in that way the South African activists loved. They were completely unaware of UK popular culture though. I suggested to them that everyone sing the (number 1 in the charts at the time) Free Nelson Mandela by the Specials AKA and they had never heard of it.

They could not scrap to save their lives though. I was on the picket one Remembrance Sunday when the NF used to have their march and the picket got attacked. It was 90 to one in our favour. The RCG members to a man/woman legged it leaving me and one other to fight it out with the NF. I got nicked for affray and then slagged on my way out of the police station by assembled RCG for some counter revolutionary crime or other (like showing them up to be pussies).

Ah fond memories.

their songs were great, but it's true they couldnt go toe to toe - had their banner nicked by two nazis when there was said to be 20 of them there etc

 

[scawenb]

They used to be the stalwarts of the non stop picket at South Africa House during the Apartheid years. They seemed very sect like. They all used to know these struggle songs from South Africa and loved singing them whilst bouncing up and down in that way the South African activists loved.

It was a 24hour picket - they were bound to learn a lot of South African songs and in winter I'm sure the bouncing in the early hours was more necessary than revolutionary.

I'm sure their fighting skills are not the best - they are not really big enough for a military wing! But in my experience they are very good a defending anyone involved in their events when they get nicked unlike a lot of the left who never think to find out which cop shop people are taken to after a demo and going down there to put pressure for their quick release. They also picketted courts very noisily when people are charged. Which i think should be standart practice as it is often the new people on a demo who get arrested and are left on their own.

 

[tim]

They used to be the stalwarts of the non stop picket at South Africa House during the Apartheid years. They seemed very sect like. They all used to know these struggle songs from South Africa and loved singing them whilst bouncing up and down in that way the South African activists loved. They were completely unaware of UK popular culture though. I suggested to them that everyone sing the (number 1 in the charts at the time) Free Nelson Mandela by the Specials AKA and they had never heard of it.

They could not scrap to save their lives though. I was on the picket one Remembrance Sunday when the NF used to have their march and the picket got attacked. It was 90 to one in our favour. The RCG members to a man/woman legged it leaving me and one other to fight it out with the NF. I got nicked for affray and then slagged on my way out of the police station by assembled RCG for some counter revolutionary crime or other (like showing them up to be pussies).

Ah fond memories.

Oh that "London Anti Apartheid group" that had left or been expelled from the mainstream AA movement.

WE'RE ON A NON-STOP PICKET OF THE EMBASSY, THE RACIST SOUTH AFRICAN EMBASSY

What an irritating repetitive chant, it must have got on the nerves of the cunts inside the Embassy. It was bad enough if you were just a casual temporary co-protestor

 

[JHE]

Oh that "London Anti Apartheid group" that had left or been expelled from the mainstream AA movement.

It think it was the City of London AA Group. Presumably the group in the City was the easiest branch in London to take over.

I think you are right about the CofL group being expelled, though I don't know on what grounds. The real reason, I suspect, is simply that they didn't toe the line. The CP was strong in the AA movement. The RCG, though it had abandoned Trottery as a doctrine (and had become what Trots call 'Stalinist' - ie, they gave up on Old Man Trot's dogmas and sided with the 'socialist' regimes around the world), kept to the Trot habits of running stunts and not doing what they were told by the CPGB or the SACP or Moscow or anyone else, except Comrade Yaffe, of course.

 

[dennisr]

Can I have it?

Already been grabed fella (which reminds me, I've still got to post it...)