I'm sure you've seen it a million times. Why do you think that is?
Revolting London: anarchists against the Mayoral elections, 2 May 2008
- Thread starter wrongway
- Start date
I'm sure you've seen it a million times. Why do you think that is?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Because you dig repetition?
Fair enough, yeah it was a generalisation that doesn't fit in with us TBH hence my comments.
By all accounts the leaflet is more toned down from martin wanted. Could it have been done better - of course it could have done - but what we have is does the job, alot of positive comments have been made on it and we should just go for it now. I didn't have time to contribute to the leaflet or help out with the design but I'm glad someone did it and its out there.
As for the "class enemies" slogan, I think it was away to say that all the politicians are against us - including the "anti-establishment" BNP. It may get people thinking, it may turn them off, who knows - I think it will be an event where people will either come or they won't.
Again fair comments, however as you were someone who was involved in CW you had your fair share of "impossible demands" as part of your politics no? "Taking back the streets" is possible if people choose to organise around issues that effect them and take direct action - would it be possible on May 2nd? Possible not, but TBH its rabble-rousing event that is hoped will be getting people thinking and coming closer to real anti-establishment politics.
for the record. i thought that Bash the Rich do in Notting Hill was a farce, as i knew it would be. But nice, as always, to see some old faces and an enjoyable day was spent on a pub crawl around Ladbroke Grove. which , i'd be the first to admit, is the closest to any 'political activity' i've come to for years.
bristol_citizen
Well-Known Member
Harsh. But mainly true.
In common with most anarchist publications it utterly failed to unite anarchists for starters. In fact, in common with most anarchist publications, it actually managed to divide them.
What it did though was break out of the anarchist ghetto pretty effectively and appealed to an unbelievably wide range of people.
You also need to remember it was very shortlived. It started in late 2001, ended in early 2005 and took quite a few extended breaks and a whole year off 2003 - 2004. So it was only active for a couple of years. What would happen if you sustained something like that over 5 or 10 years? (Sustain being the operative word).
In terms of the election, OK they didn't win but they got a second, a couple of thirds and a few fourths and didn't embarrass themselves as much as they could have done (Venue called the campaign "surprisingly professional"!) - which is very easy to do in elections. How many new parties come from nowhere to win elections outright?
Again, what would have happened if they had sustained it and come back for more?
That election also showed that if anarchists are prepared to tactically engage in the kind of politics working class people understand and actually do (eg. elections) they'll find a much wider audience than calling for endless demos and actions.
This is always something that does my nut in, easy targets the wombles aye. Just to put a spin on it though those ''weirdo wombles'', many moons ago when a few of us were squatting a social centre in brum, sent us so much love and support, coffee to keep us going, emails to cheer us up, phone calls to encourage us before court, a presence within the building at times to prove that they had our back, shared experiences, encouragement, rage, kindness, publicity and overall more solidarity than we could shake a stick at.
Some wombles travelled up to the midlands to show support and solidarity when a few of our number were in court after getting arrested on an action.
Maydays they offered us somewhere to go and chill out and meet new people if we needed it
When i couldnt find anywhere to live and had to move to a new city homeless, one womble even offered me his old room in his moms house even though i dont think we'd even met.
the ''wombles'' were anything but weird, theres a lot of political willy waving in the London scene and there always has been, but i was never involved in all that, when we needed the support they sent it. I only hope we were able to repay the favour enough in various things we did.
love and rage.
i had a few chats with mart about it and we had some great ideas for slogans etc. these appear to have been eschewed for anarcho-claptrap about 'class enemies' and other such wank-speak that means absolutely fuck all to anyone who isn't already a convert to left-wing politics.
I haven't got a copy of that 'revolting london' flyer to hand but why on earth is there stuff about 'Taking back the streets of London' on it? That isn't going to happen. You may as well be talking about populating Mars. Either Livingstone or Johnson will get in. there's no escaping that. What the anti-mayoral campaign should simply have been about is taking the piss out of the lot of them and exposing the insididious BNP bullshit, that unfortunately (and latgely due to the abject failure of the left to in any way counter it) is consolidating itself day by day and will no doubt lead to a seat in the elections.
for the record. i thought that Bash the Rich do in Notting Hill was a farce, as i knew it would be. But nice, as always, to see some old faces and an enjoyable day was spent on a pub crawl around Ladbroke Grove. which , i'd be the first to admit, is the closest to any 'political activity' i've come to for years.
Given i wrote most of the text for the leaflet and the only wombles- type who has been involved in the may 2nd event from the beginning i'm guessing you and 'mart' must be talking about me.
Except he's never once, through all the May 2nd meetings, brought up any of the issues you stated, and certainly not in the manner you've deigned to present them, which can only really mean two possible things
1. he decided to confide in you his personal doubts and concerns (which you then spread all over a public bulletin board) while saying and doing the opposite at the May 2nd meetings - making him a bit of a two-faced liar, or
2. you're a bit of a fantasist picking up fragments of anarchist gossip and trading it, with a degree of febrile oneupmanship, amongst your internet friends.
Either way you do come across as a bit of a shit stirrer, enrico, an odd specimen to be sure.
My prefered option for the front of the leaflet was 'enemies of the working class' but as with anything that's organised as a group we don't always get our way.
'taking to the streets' was one of martin's enrico.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
I think as well the accusation that anarchists are doing nothing to combat the stereotype isn't true at all. All over the bloody place anarchists, often wearing sensible haircuts and cleanish clothes, are getting involved in community activism where the politics may drive the action but the discussion is about helping their locales rather than achieving praxis or preaching the gospel of st kropotkin. The recent meetings and actions advertised on here show that I think, let alone all the stuff that isn't.
Of course, there's a fair amount of politicking too, which is to be expected.
Of course, there's a fair amount of politicking too, which is to be expected.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Good post kidda
I also haven't met any ex-Wombles who wear black uniforms, talk about praxis and libertarian communism and think they're in Berlin in 1976 
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
Good post kidda
ok, fair enough and apologies. i'm thinking of some other folks i've seen about. evidently i was wrong bout who they were.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
i haven't a clue who wrote the leaflet mate. i just picked one up in a coffee shop on brick lane on saturday.
re your point #1 : what you on about? i haven't attributed anything to mart. i ahaven't seen mart for a fortnight so i hadn't heard anything about what was gonna be in the leaflet or who wrote it. i was expecting it to be more about the BNP as i thought the whole point of the event was to counter their PR when they win a seat in some dump. the leaflet i saw doesn't really give that impression.
personally, i think 'enemies of the working class' is crap too. if it was gonna be against all the candidates it should just have been their mugshots with the words WANKERS across it. you can't beat that.
folk like stuff like that. they're not into political stuff. PR should be populist.
i thought the whole point about this 'campaign' was to get lots of kids along to cause trouble, lots of locals etc.
i'm sorry but i don't really think that appears to be the primary objective of that leaflet. for lack of a better term, it's just a bit 'dry' if you know what i mean?
fwiw I thought chico was making some good points about what's appealing and what's not to your average person. I certainly wouldn't have got to where I am now politically if I hadn't been helped along by the populist stuff produced by Ian Bone et al, even though I was reading a lot of dryer stuff at the time as well.
Haven't the faintest idea about any persons real or imaginary involved in this discussion and aint seen the leaflet so don't ask me to comment on specifics
Haven't the faintest idea about any persons real or imaginary involved in this discussion and aint seen the leaflet so don't ask me to comment on specifics
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
basically to understand how to convey what is a relatively 'extremist' (for lack of a better term) position to the majority of people successfully i'd say the first thing any group should be doing is looking at the sort of propaganda leaflets the likes of the SWP, IMG, RCP and the rest of the 'left wing alternative' produce and comparing them to what the BNP give out.
It is notable that the revolting london leaflet contains the sentence "despite the language they use the BNP have always had a vicious anti-working clas tradition".
Yes. A language that leads to a lot of working class folks (misguidedly) voting for them. A language people understand, not one they have to have grasped the linguistic nuances of marxist dialectics to comprehend. not saying the 'revolting london' leaflet is like that, indeed it is a lot better than most, but you can see where i'm coming from?
The Black Hand
Unclean
A) Basically, i mean the sort of folk who wear black uniforms and talk about 'libertarian communism'and 'autonomism' and 'praxis' and don't really seem to realise they're not in some 2nd June Mvt cell in berlin in 1976.
B) MAM was hijacked by a load of folk who haven't a clue.
A) Have these ever existed in the UK? (group/names?) I have never seen any.
B) Really? When and where did this great take over take place? I don't accept that happened, I think rather, that for a number of reasons it petered out more.
It was really difficult to sustain the degree of activism that enabled its success, and the later events didn't have the amount of networking and the hard graft necessary to ensure numbers. There were times of tremendous possibilities and it is still an issue which could see a bornagain MA'M. The British apolitical culture and feudal political system DO still need a political revolution and that isn't going to go away.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Good post kidda
I agree Thora, it was a good description of positive Wombling politics.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
This is a good point though, regardless of what anyone thinks of the rest of chico's posts on this thread. There have been far too many times when I've picked up a leaflet and thought to myself that you either need to already be sympathetic to the cause OR to need a political knowledge to understand or care about. Anarchists need to speak to the common or garden fella-in-the-street if we're to do any good, as well as carry on the community AND bigger issue politicking.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Chico you are being unkind and unfair to the Wombles. They were in my view some of the better dressed and certainly well organised anarchists I have met in years. Their social centres were well run, their food and so on excellent quality and their numbers included many decent people.
I don't think they ever really fitted the black clad smelly stereotype.
I would also venture that they had more women involved than any other comparable group which says much about them.
PS Mart was on the phone last night re the second of May, and also the CW anniversery do, you have to attend the latter.
I don't think they ever really fitted the black clad smelly stereotype.
I would also venture that they had more women involved than any other comparable group which says much about them.
PS Mart was on the phone last night re the second of May, and also the CW anniversery do, you have to attend the latter.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
Chico you are being unkind and unfair to the Wombles. They were in my view some of the better dressed and certainly well organised anarchists I have met in years. Their social centres were well run, their food and so on excellent quality and their numbers included many decent people.
I don't think they ever really fitted the black clad smelly stereotype.
I would also venture that they had more women involved than any other comparable group which says much about them.
PS Mart was on the phone last night re the second of May, and also the CW anniversery do, you have to attend the latter.
i really do owe these wombles characters an unreserved apology. I think i was completely mistaken as to who they are. i thought they were those rather fragrant looking types who were all masked up, waving black flags and shouting abuse at the guy on the fishmonger's stall at 12am on portobello road the day of that BTR do. i was wrong. my mistake and apologies.
When is this CW get-together? PM me any details. i think big david might be persuaded to attend as well.
I wonder who will get walloped first?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
i really do owe these wombles characters an unreserved apology. I think i was completely mistaken as to who they are. i thought they were those rather fragrant looking types who were all masked up, waving black flags and shouting abuse at the guy on the fishmonger's stall at 12am on portobello road the day of that BTR do. i was wrong. my mistake and apologies.
When is this CW get-together? PM me any details. i think big david might be persuaded to attend as well.
I wonder who will get walloped first?
Fishmongers??!!
Not a vegan protest please!
Big david and all the other old faces have to attend that do. I am trying to get hold of the Mastin and Jake and Creepy Nick.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
haha, yea mate. sure Mastin will turn up if he hears it's you who'se inviting him!!
wasn't Nick a school caretaker? haven't a clue what became of him - or Brixton jake, and Caroline K lives in France now i think so can't ask her.
to be honest, most of the original cw characters you'd want to see you probably see every year at your birthday. the others more out of morbid curiosity.
if the do's gonna be in Portobello maybe Pete The Murderer will make an appearance?
wasn't Nick a school caretaker? haven't a clue what became of him - or Brixton jake, and Caroline K lives in France now i think so can't ask her.
to be honest, most of the original cw characters you'd want to see you probably see every year at your birthday. the others more out of morbid curiosity.
if the do's gonna be in Portobello maybe Pete The Murderer will make an appearance?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Nick was a school laborotry technician I recollect.
Contrary to certain malicious reports, Pete Mastin is working as a magician now and is not dead and buried under the Croydon Flyover.
Here is his ugly mug.
Jake is oop North somewhere. Black Matt is one I miss to bits. I would love to hook up with him again. Jo Wells is in Africa, Rwanda I think. Dave Spart works in the Theatre somewhere or other. You have Darren in Aus (thankfully) and Mad Mark was last seen rummaging through MCDonalds bins 15 years back.
I will try and get John to come, it should be fun!
Contrary to certain malicious reports, Pete Mastin is working as a magician now and is not dead and buried under the Croydon Flyover.
Here is his ugly mug.
Jake is oop North somewhere. Black Matt is one I miss to bits. I would love to hook up with him again. Jo Wells is in Africa, Rwanda I think. Dave Spart works in the Theatre somewhere or other. You have Darren in Aus (thankfully
) and Mad Mark was last seen rummaging through MCDonalds bins 15 years back. I will try and get John to come, it should be fun!
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I just read some of the Mastin magic guff.
"Temple T is a club-based temple that broke the power of the AIDS virus. It was a series of rituals in 1997, based in a gay club frequented by a lot of HIV-positive people, who we encouraged to come along. We were working healing magic on several hundred people a week in there, with the knowledge and consent of the club promoters, getting a catalogue of, well, you could call them miracles. One of the promoters who was HIV+ went down with meningitis about the second week into the club, so we did a working there. From the dance floor working we produced a 'runetine' - a bit of wood with runes on it, which we took to the hospital. He looked like death, but came to consciousness as one of us stood by the bed, and as he touched the runetine, he got a smile and a twinkle back in his eye. He was out of hospital a week later, and he's still promoting clubs. You can say that's all delusion, but at the time, he would have died and that was that. It's not as if we could have done any harm by standing around in spooky costumes and doing some weird actions. Perhaps it helped those who were ill to make a leap of faith as well."
His balance has not improved!!!!!
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/interviews/712/peter_mastin_chaos_magician.html
"Temple T is a club-based temple that broke the power of the AIDS virus. It was a series of rituals in 1997, based in a gay club frequented by a lot of HIV-positive people, who we encouraged to come along. We were working healing magic on several hundred people a week in there, with the knowledge and consent of the club promoters, getting a catalogue of, well, you could call them miracles. One of the promoters who was HIV+ went down with meningitis about the second week into the club, so we did a working there. From the dance floor working we produced a 'runetine' - a bit of wood with runes on it, which we took to the hospital. He looked like death, but came to consciousness as one of us stood by the bed, and as he touched the runetine, he got a smile and a twinkle back in his eye. He was out of hospital a week later, and he's still promoting clubs. You can say that's all delusion, but at the time, he would have died and that was that. It's not as if we could have done any harm by standing around in spooky costumes and doing some weird actions. Perhaps it helped those who were ill to make a leap of faith as well."
His balance has not improved!!!!!
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/interviews/712/peter_mastin_chaos_magician.html
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
This isn't good PR for the Class War movement...
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Pete left CW twenty years back in the great exodus.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
a few contenders there mate...Mason maybe? haha, nice typo !!
but if you mean sexiest and you're thinking of that loveliness who used to hang about with that Chris character from the streatham Action Group who looked like a gnome - yes, i'd definately agree with you there.
Think she lives near mart now, and is indeed still stunning. Also, I bumped into Chris working at bank station a few times so he might still a guard on the tube.
Mastin oh for fucks' sake' - wherever next??
I thought his 'Chaos Clowns' act was bad enough....last i heard Glynn was standing as an IWCA councillor or something?
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
haha, remember The Trout who dave sparks used to go out with? don't think there'd be many votes for her!!
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Fuck what was the Trouts name?
Mason is at least alive and well which is great news. I can't imagine him turning up but you never now.
Angie and Andy were a great couple. Enough CW's had crushes on her even if she did smell of ferret all the time.
I saw Tim Payne a few years back at a party, he was on good form.
Glyn posts on here all the time. Look for stuff banging on and and on in his own inimitable way.
I saw that bloke from Sheffield a few years ago who used to call himself Jessu and his gf was Mary yeah? He has changed his name to something else and is really touchy about being ripped over this.
The Barn we know about, it's good to see him out and about, he certainly made his prsence felt at last years book fair.
Steve Sutton was up north doing something or other. Hiding from mart probably or murdering cats.
Garby is still in Aus?
Mason is at least alive and well which is great news. I can't imagine him turning up but you never now.
Angie and Andy were a great couple. Enough CW's had crushes on her even if she did smell of ferret all the time.
I saw Tim Payne a few years back at a party, he was on good form.
Glyn posts on here all the time. Look for stuff banging on and and on in his own inimitable way.
I saw that bloke from Sheffield a few years ago who used to call himself Jessu and his gf was Mary yeah? He has changed his name to something else and is really touchy about being ripped over this.
The Barn we know about, it's good to see him out and about, he certainly made his prsence felt at last years book fair.
Steve Sutton was up north doing something or other. Hiding from mart probably or murdering cats.
Garby is still in Aus?
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
Fuck what was the Trouts name?
Mason is at least alive and well which is great news. I can't imagine him turning up but you never now.
Angie and Andy were a great couple. Enough CW's had crushes on her even if she did smell of ferret all the time.
I saw Tim Payne a few years back at a party, he was on good form.
Glyn posts on here all the time. Look for stuff banging on and and on in his own inimitable way.
I saw that bloke from Sheffield a few years ago who used to call himself Jessu and his gf was Mary yeah? He has changed his name to something else and is really touchy about being ripped over this.
The Barn we know about, it's good to see him out and about, he certainly made his prsence felt at last years book fair.
Steve Sutton was up north doing something or other. Hiding from mart probably or murdering cats.
Garby is still in Aus?
The Trout? can't remember her real name. she was a right horror. i remember me and Ian took her and Dave through to Glasgow to meet the Clydeside @s. think she was a bit put out when she saw their source 'fund raising' - "The Gentlemans' Stall" ie Big John's porn video and wank mag market stall
Yea, Andy and angie were sound. Is anyone still in ouch with them?
Haven't seen Tim since we went along to his club along Chapel Market a couple of years ago. maybe he's still doing it. ('Tighten Up' ?)
wonder if anyone will have found God?
