Respectability for anti-Zionism.

[Luther Blissett]

Not that Zionism is, even in Israel, the mainstream ideology of Jews.

In other words, thickie Pete is in favour of the opinions of a minority of Jews, and yet is ignorant enough to class the Jewish left (not that there is such a unitary body) as a "fringe".

Ignorant indeed!

Indeed. There are so many post-zionists now, that at the Herzylia conference, it was named as Israel's second greatest threat (by a neo-zionist, of course, bent on expansion and continued occupation and annexation). And when neo-zionists phrase 'seeking Israel's destruction' what they actually mean is 'ending occupation' or 'withdrawal to pre-67 boundaries' or 'sharing Jerusalem with Palestine' or 'negotiating with Syria' or 'giving back the Jordan Valley' or 'ending house demolition in Negev and Palestine', etc.

 

[Luther Blissett]

States suck, whatever states they are.

No-one is illegal!

 

[Luther Blissett]

I am wondering how truth can 'play into the hands of muslim radicals'.

easy - just define them, as you have done, as 'anti-zionists', which would be an inaccurate description of their politics - the new group does not give 'respectability for anti-zionism' at all.

zionism as an ideology is complex - there are at least two types of zionist - the A.D. Gordon type, who weren't even thinking about forming a separate state and were escaping pogroms of eastern europe at the turn of the century - these are always Jewish, and some are religious, and some are secular.
then there is the neo-zionist, who favours 'Allon Plan Plus' - these are made up of all types - secular, Christian (majority) and Jewish(minority).

to my mind, the new group will have the political and intellectual freedom to find a solution to this political dichotomy - speaking against Israel's continuing occupation of Palestine is not necessarily antizionism. requesting that they desist from demolishing Palestinian or Bedouin homes is also not necessarily anti-zionism.

 

[moono]

easy - just define them, as you have done, as 'anti-zionists', which would be an inaccurate description of their politics - the new group does not give 'respectability for anti-zionism' at all.

zionism as an ideology is complex - there are at least two types of zionist - the A.D. Gordon type, who weren't even thinking about forming a separate state and were escaping pogroms of eastern europe at the turn of the century - these are always Jewish, and some are religious, and some are secular.
then there is the neo-zionist, who favours 'Allon Plan Plus' - these are made up of all types - secular, Christian (majority) and Jewish(minority).

I beg to differ. 'Anti-Zionism' was already a respectable position before the formation of this progressive group. This group is a jewish group and its formation, principles and particularly its audibility is creating a new respectability for the general jewish position.

A third type of Zionist description might apply to those who ignore international law and human rights principles, indulge in ethnic cleansing, apartheid, extra-judicial execution, kidnap, incarceration without trial, murder, political assassination and land theft.

You don't think opposition to these Zionists has been respectable ? You'd be wrong.

 

[nino_savatte]

easy - just define them, as you have done, as 'anti-zionists', which would be an inaccurate description of their politics - the new group does not give 'respectability for anti-zionism' at all.

zionism as an ideology is complex - there are at least two types of zionist - the A.D. Gordon type, who weren't even thinking about forming a separate state and were escaping pogroms of eastern europe at the turn of the century - these are always Jewish, and some are religious, and some are secular.
then there is the neo-zionist, who favours 'Allon Plan Plus' - these are made up of all types - secular, Christian (majority) and Jewish(minority).

to my mind, the new group will have the political and intellectual freedom to find a solution to this political dichotomy - speaking against Israel's continuing occupation of Palestine is not necessarily antizionism. requesting that they desist from demolishing Palestinian or Bedouin homes is also not necessarily anti-zionism.

You've left out the Revisionist Zionism of Ze'ev Jabotinsky which forms the bedrock of Likud's & Karima's ideological positions.

 

[nino_savatte]

No-one is illegal!

I don't follow: no state is illegal or no person is illegal? What's the crack?

 

[goldenecitrone]

I don't follow: no state is illegal or no person is illegal? What's the crack?

They're saying that no human being should be illegal in a country, as is the current case in most nation states.