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Respect v BNP in Preston

The rules on registering party names and descriptions does allow "no label", something the "Independent Labour" councillors have used in Deepdale in the past, so rather than the word "independent", the description is blank.

I note Barry Hill uses the term "Respect member" not "candidate" on his leaflet, which is a good enough "workaround" under the circumstances.
 
JHE said:
That is highly likely. If it is a compulsory field, though, that will be because some party label or at least some descriptor (eg, Independent) is thought necessary.

If you lot were nice, you'd write to poor old Barry Hill and his masters: "OK. Go on. We won't stop you using the magic name. We were only teasing."

But you're not nice, are you? You'll let Barry Hill go on the ballot paper with nothing more meaningful than an invisible blank or a full stop or, at best, an 'Independent' to cover his nakedness.

SWP weren't prepared to discuss it. Renewal never turned them down or refused - simply that there had to be a discussion.
 
Why do you use a reply to the islamophobe to slag off the swp again you inveterate sectarian?

Speaking as a middle of the road ex-swp Respect supporter if I have one more email from George and Salma's party asking me "To raise funds for Respect, we're holding a Burns Night celebration with George Galloway MP, who will address the haggis." I'm gonna puke. All I can see is Respect Renewal is heading the way GG wanted it, the lowest common denominator with no socialist politics...apart that is from folk like yourself Fisher. The renegades from the swp I can understand, they have a point to prove (namely that they're not without an ounce of principle as we all suspect) but the sectarians like you I don't understand.

What do you get? Other than being patted on the head by numpties like Ger Francis and Kevin Ooooooh I used to be a marxist now I suck a stalinist off Ovenden (ditto for Hoveman before I get accused of being a homophobe)?
 
No BNP as their local orgainser Chris Hill has gone off with the rebel group in the BNP- they are fighting a by election though for Wyre council on 7th Feb (Wyre is the area around Fleetwood)- so Lancashire antifascists may be arsed to do soemthing about his.
 
An appalling decison by Galloways mob to try to prevent a Socialist candidate standing- a trick they also tried in a council by election in Leyton on the same day.

Why exactly should Respect by required to communicate with ex-respect members like George Galloway or Linda Smith on where Socialists decide to stand for election?
 
JimPage said:
An appalling decison by Galloways mob to try to prevent a Socialist candidate standing- a trick they also tried in a council by election in Leyton on the same day.

Why exactly should Respect by required to communicate with ex-respect members like George Galloway or Linda Smith on where Socialists decide to stand for election?

Because they are not ex-members. They have not been expelled or resigned. It's a farcical situation, I know, but I'm sure the SWP would have done the same.

It's M.A.D.
 
JimPage said:
An appalling decison by Galloways mob to try to prevent a Socialist candidate standing- a trick they also tried in a council by election in Leyton on the same day.

Why exactly should Respect by required to communicate with ex-respect members like George Galloway or Linda Smith on where Socialists decide to stand for election?

No-one has attempted to stop anyone standing Jim, so get of your high horse!

The issue is purely about whether the SWP candidates are allowed to call themselves "Respect".

[Which is a bit different to the previous situation in Manchester when the SWP nationally did actually favour preventing an ex-member's nomination whose Respect branch wanted them to stand in the local elections - the SWP agreed to the standing of an SWP member only in just one ward in Manchester for two years running. ]

And Linda Smith and George Galloway are not "ex-members" of Respect - they refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the conference on 17th November.


The description of candidates is a matter of electoral law - something the SWP have been perfectly aware of over the last 5 months. If the 17th November conference had been legitimate, then the SWP could have gone to the electoral commission within two weeks of the conference and requested a change of the nominating officer. They did not, because they know that the Electoral Commission would not have accepted their version of events.

The reality is the SWP are too scared to go to the Electoral Commission because they know their account of the events leading up to the 17th November will be rejected and come crashing down around them.

Throughout all this the SWP have not had a leg to stand on about the Respect name- and worse, have known it all along and have been stringing along their members with the pretence that they represent the continuity of Respect, when everyone knows that in reality there has been a split.

The point is that Respect had procedures for agreeing and selecting candidates, conveniently forgotten now, and that ultimately ended with a discussion and Linda Smith's assent to the nomination being in the name of Respect.

The SWP could have secured this if they had simply requested the recommencement of the negotiations, that they initiated in October, to amicably split Respect. These negotiations included, at the insistence of Galloway and Smith et al an electoral pact to cover future elections. It is the SWP who walked away from the negotiations not Galloway and Smith. It was the SWP who supported their councillors' public resignation from the Respect group in Tower Hamlets and formed an 'independent' group with their own Leader and Deputy Leader, negotiated with the LibDems on a coalition, and denounced the elected leader of the Respect group (who was elected by the whole membership not the councillors by the way), without taking any of the alleged differences up in Respect.

Once the SWP restart the negotiations there is no reason why agreement cannot be reached for candidates to be legally endorsed under the 'Respect' label - there is still time for the May elections if the SWP want to do it.

However they seem intent on a scorched earth policy and their candidates continuing to have no description on the ballot paper. How mindless is that?

They have other options - the SWP were previously registered with the Electoral Commission - they can resurrect that registration if they wish and stand their candidates under their true description. They have the absolute right to do that and no-one can do anything to stop or delay that. If they are so keen on getting their description as socialists onto the ballot paper, why do they not do that, Jim?
 
Fisher_Gate said:
They have other options - the SWP were previously registered with the Electoral Commission - they can resurrect that registration if they wish and stand their candidates under their true description. They have the absolute right to do that and no-one can do anything to stop or delay that. If they are so keen on getting their description as socialists onto the ballot paper, why do they not do that, Jim?

Because that would mean being honest and upfront and not duplicitous lying gits maybe?:rolleyes:
 
Stevil said:
Because that would mean being honest and upfront and not duplicitous lying gits maybe?:rolleyes:
:D
you really don't have a clue do you? To be motivated to watch being duplicitous and lying there would have to be something to gain, what have they gained?
 
Fisher_Gate said:
Highly probable, though the BNP may split the Tory vote too.

What is more alarming is that the same ward has an election on 1st May (exactly 11 weeks later) where a very good left wing Labour councillor will be defending the seat against a strong Tory challenge (the Tories now run Preston Council).

SWP-Respect have said they will not under any circumstances stand against him, so even if they were to get a good vote, the SWP would be reduced to being cheer leaders for the Labour left having undermined the Labour vote in the by-election 11 weeks earlier.

It's been called the Okey-Cokey strategy to elections, in-out, in-out, one week you stand, the next week you do not.

There is no way it can be a viable strategy to building up a left-of-Labour long term electoral base. Given the threat from the Tories and BNP and the fact that there are at least half a dozen other wards where Respect has a far greater chance on 1st May, it could be considered adventurism by some on the left.
And there at last is a hint at the Respect Renewal model for building, and what SW disagreed with. Making the same mistake as the SSP.
 
The result was predictable. 83 votes for Barry Hill. 6.8% on a 23% turnout. It's being hailed as "an important stepping stone" by Preston Respect. What they fail to mention is that they had a councillor there until recently albeit a Labour defector. http://www.prestonrespect.org/?p=97 Idiots.
 
Lab 423 (34.3;-14.6)
Lib Dem 400 (32.4;+15.3)
Con 292 (23.6;-10.4)
Ind 84 (6.8;+6.8)
Green 36
(2.9;+2.9).

Majority 23. Turnout 23.0%. Lab hold. Last fought 2007.
A labour vote down by 15% and they can only pick up 6.8% in *the* model town for their approach...
 
Turd versus Turd in my opinion. They are both a bunch of divisive shites.

I used to find you funny Keyboard. But now I just think your a cock. You are constantly carping on about how Respect never stood/stands in BNP targeted areas, and how this is letting the BNP get a free run at things, because the left is too lazy/middle class/whatever other gobshite your coming up with this week to do it. You say that them failing to stand in white working class areas is what makes them divisive. Then when they do exactly what your asking them to do all the time you say this. You're pathetic. Clocks ticking for you to actually get up your fat office seat molded arse and do something against the fash, something activists in Preston are doing. Tosser.
 
Lab 423 (34.3;-14.6)
Lib Dem 400 (32.4;+15.3)
Con 292 (23.6;-10.4)
Ind 84 (6.8;+6.8)
Green 36
(2.9;+2.9).

Majority 23. Turnout 23.0%. Lab hold. Last fought 2007.
A labour vote down by 15% and they can only pick up 6.8% in *the* model town for their approach...

They had SWPers bused in from across the NW, and I think as far as Birmingham and for 84 votes :eek: This is a ward formerly represented by a Respect cllr (defection from Labour). It suggests that, certainly in mainly white w/c areas, support has even gone backwards since the Parliamentary by-election result of the Socialist Alliance in Preston.

Respect is totally fucked.
 
They had SWPers bused in from across the NW, and I think as far as Birmingham and for 84 votes :eek: This is a ward formerly represented by a Respect cllr (defection from Labour). It suggests that, certainly in mainly white w/c areas, support has even gone backwards since the Parliamentary by-election result of the Socialist Alliance in Preston.

Respect is totally fucked.

SWP-Respect that should be.
 
a personal vote with reduced number of footsoldiers will be a reduced personal vote

Footsoldiers? You mean the passing through bristol uni poshos who were respect locally plus Jerry and his ex-swp partner?

Odd though, this personal vote was the path to follow when he was in your party.
 
Footsoldiers? You mean the passing through bristol uni poshos who were respect locally plus Jerry and his ex-swp partner?

Odd though, this personal vote was the path to follow when he was in your party.

Hicks programme and activity are entirely socialist and pro-working class. (to everyone except the SWP that is - they cheered him last time he stood, but denounce him now as 'right wing' bizarrely)

No-one can be under any illusion what they are voting for when they vote Hicks.

That's completely different to someone standing as an independent with no politics and saying "vote for me because I'm a nice guy".

This is a former Labour stronghold where white working class voters have abandoned Labour because they are disillusioned with it and have turned, in the main, to the LibDems instead. Hicks is taking on not only New Labour but the LibDems too.

Sure he is strongly committed to the area and has known it since he was born. But that is what Renewal means by a different electoral strategy to that of the SWP, which wants to flit in an out of areas like Tulketh and Leyton according to the whim of the time.

Renewal wants to build long term roots for a socialist alternative, that's why it aims to get more Jerry Hicks style of campaigns in the future, especially in white working class areas.

Watch this space for more developments.
 
Hicks programme and activity are entirely socialist and pro-working class. (to everyone except the SWP that is - they cheered him last time he stood, but denounce him now as 'right wing' bizarrely)

No-one can be under any illusion what they are voting for when they vote Hicks.

That's completely different to someone standing as an independent with no politics and saying "vote for me because I'm a nice guy".

This is a former Labour stronghold where white working class voters have abandoned Labour because they are disillusioned with it and have turned, in the main, to the LibDems instead. Hicks is taking on not only New Labour but the LibDems too.

Sure he is strongly committed to the area and has known it since he was born. But that is what Renewal means by a different electoral strategy to that of the SWP, which wants to flit in an out of areas like Tulketh and Leyton according to the whim of the time.

Renewal wants to build long term roots for a socialist alternative, that's why it aims to get more Jerry Hicks style of campaigns in the future, especially in white working class areas.

Watch this space for more developments.

I live next door ro the ward. I can tell you now that if Hicks wasn't standing there would be no independent socialist appearing from out of the ether. It's a vote for Jerry and when Jerry doesn't stand the politics don't /won't have an independent existence. I like Jerry and he's no fly-by-night parachuted in paper candidate. I hope he gets a good vote, i hope he can put working class concerns on the local agenda as a starting point for wider community activity, but that's it. It's not red lockleaze.

edit to add, that yes, i agree, long term commitment to areas like lockleaze are the key. if that the renewal approach then fair play, it's already got a better aapproach then the swp version. That said...:D
 
I live next door ro the ward. I can tell you now that if Hicks wasn't standing there would be no independent socialist appearing from out of the ether. It's a vote for Jerry and when Jerry doesn't stand the politics don't /won't have an independent existence. I like Jerry and he's no fly-by-night parachuted in paper candidate. I hope he gets a good vote, i hope he can put working class concerns on the local agenda as a starting point for wider community activity, but that's it. It's not red lockleaze.

edit to add, that yes, i agree, long term commitment to areas like lockleaze are the key. if that the renewal approach then fair play, it's already got a better aapproach then the swp version. That said...:D

I don't disagree with anything you say there - the SWP hyperbole about the result last time was just that.
 
. But that is what Renewal means by a different electoral strategy to that of the SWP, which wants to flit in an out of areas like Tulketh and Leyton according to the whim of the time.

Renewal wants to build long term roots for a socialist alternative, that's why it aims to get more Jerry Hicks style of campaigns in the future, especially in white working class areas.

all sounds good but the doesn't square up to what happenned in in tower hamlets
 
Watch what happens in Bristol Lockleaze ward in this year's elections then. Then judge us.

Will Respect-Renewal be standing in Preston then? Maybe in Ribbleton or Ingol? After all Galloway used to turn up here quite often but now the meetings won't be packed with SWPers from all over Lancashire & Greater Manchester will they?
 
I used to find you funny Keyboard. But now I just think your a cock. You are constantly carping on about how Respect never stood/stands in BNP targeted areas, and how this is letting the BNP get a free run at things, because the left is too lazy/middle class/whatever other gobshite your coming up with this week to do it. You say that them failing to stand in white working class areas is what makes them divisive. Then when they do exactly what your asking them to do all the time you say this. You're pathetic. Clocks ticking for you to actually get up your fat office seat molded arse and do something against the fash, something activists in Preston are doing. Tosser.

:rolleyes:

There are ways of beating the fash but Respect are not the way to do it. If they had done grass roots work then I might have a change of view but they aint. They are doing the same shit every time and it is isn't working. We have far more bnp councillors than we have Respect councillors. The antifash left needs to put up the sort of candidates and have the sort of policies that have broader appeal. The frightening thing is that the bnp seem to be learning the lesson of having electoral appeal which Respect and some other antifash parties are not doing.
 
Will Respect-Renewal be standing in Preston then? Maybe in Ribbleton or Ingol? After all Galloway used to turn up here quite often but now the meetings won't be packed with SWPers from all over Lancashire & Greater Manchester will they?

I hear the SWP are only standing in Town Centre ward, which is totally crazy and a complete climbdown compared to the last 4 years. It's an admission their electoral strategy has totally collapsed into a fan club for Lavalette.

No chance of RR doing anything locally in this year's local elections; the 'renewed' organisation is still too new and fragile - Galloway et al will be focussing on London and Birmingham elections in May where there is more at stake. Renewal will be standing in North Manchester for the first time
http://www.nemadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1029327_gp_to_be_next_respect_candidate.

But assuming the SWP continue with their self-destruction and abandon Respect/electoral activity (quite a strong possibility), next year's county elections are a possibility, once we've got the organisation up and running properly. Unlike the SWP, we would look for a formal non-aggression agreement with the Greens and other left wing forces of course.

We get quite a few local enquiries from Galloway's radio programme from white working class voters by the way. Talksport is a different audience to the usual brown rice and muesli lefties.
 
Unlike the SWP, we would look for a formal non-aggression agreement with the Greens and other left wing forces of course.


We'd obviously be interested to hear what is on offer. Your comments show that the focus on Birmingham and London is a recognition that Renewal will need to play to their strengths.

I think the Euros in 2009 are absolutely crucial for us Greens, and if Renewal are serious about getting a non aggression pact, then not standing at the Euros would be a very useful starting point. I also wouldn't rule out a more co-operative approach with Respect (SWP) as well, in relation to Lavalette's seat on the same sort of basis.

The threat to Caroline Lucas and Jean Lambert's Green Euro seats was imo where Green/Respect relations went wrong in 2004. You can probably also appreciate having had this split take place, why we were absolutely opposed to having a joint list at that time.
 
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