Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Respect to explode?

junius said:
Yet the SWP's response to his document indicates...

But we don't yet know what their response is! OK, we know that they dispute some of the claims GG has made, but that's all. That does not mean that they will not accede to his demands. They have refused GG nothing so far.

I think the Social Workers mean it when they say they are fully committed to al-Respeq. They have no other plan, strategy or 'perspective'. It's Islamo-Trottery or nowt. Why would they not make whatever adjustments are needed to keep the alliance going?
 
JHE said:
But we don't yet know what their response is! OK, we know that they dispute some of the claims GG has made, but that's all. That does not mean that they will not accede to his demands. They have refused GG nothing so far.

I think the Social Workers mean it when they say they are fully committed to al-Respeq. They have no other plan, strategy or 'perspective'. It's Islamo-Trottery or nowt. Why would they not make whatever adjustments are needed to keep the alliance going?
Problem is the 'Strategy and Survival' bits of their brains are not very well connected to the somewhat underused 'Talking to other People and Compromising' lobes :p
 
JHE said:
But we don't yet know what their response is! OK, we know that they dispute some of the claims GG has made, but that's all. That does not mean that they will not accede to his demands. They have refused GG nothing so far.

I think the Social Workers mean it when they say they are fully committed to al-Respeq. They have no other plan, strategy or 'perspective'. It's Islamo-Trottery or nowt. Why would they not make whatever adjustments are needed to keep the alliance going?

Party notes makes plain that the CC will be going around the country to cohere its faction of Respect. I can't imagine the CC saying to members Gorgeous has got a point.

The regime is built on the the notion that the CC can do no wrong. Any admission of guilt, might cause all sorts of problems. Rank n file hacks believe in CC infallabilty and couldn't cope with the uncertainty of it ever being wrong. Other rank n filers might get the confidence to say things about the leadership that they only usually say at 11pm in the pub. They might start demanding democratic rights and we all know what glasnost paved the way for.

They might might well cobble a deal together for the election. But Scotland shows how the far left are world class in knowing how to screw things up.
 
MC5 said:
Is there anyone O'Hara doesn't believe is a spook?

I know that O'Hara can have a scatter gun approach when it comes to his accusations but NFTB wouldn't be NFTB without some juicy allegations. That said his research is always entertaining and interesting, more than can be said for most of the dross put out by the Left in this country.

Plus their are loads of leading figures in radical politics that O'Hara has never accused of being spooks/touts:

Collet, Tyndall, Edmonds, Griffin, Harrington, Holland, Bambery, all of RA....
 
PaulOK said:
I know that O'Hara can have a scatter gun approach when it comes to his accusations but NFTB wouldn't be NFTB without some juicy allegations. That said his research is always entertaining and interesting, more than can be said for most of the dross put out by the Left in this country.

Plus their are loads of leading figures in radical politics that O'Hara has never accused of being spooks/touts:

Collet, Tyndall, Edmonds, Griffin, Harrington, Holland, Bambery, all of RA....

I'll accept that, but his 'juicy allegation' on this thread, rather than being entertaining and interesting appears at first hand to be very silly.
 
4thwrite said:
quite amused at galloway going on about cliques, then spelling out who should be on the new committee :D Once a Stalinist...

"This committee must comprise the leading members of Respect, including Salma, Linda Smith, Yvonne Ridley, Abjol Miah (as the leader of our 11 councillors in the central election battleground of Tower Hamlets), me, Lindsey German, Alan Thornett, Nick Wrack as well as the National Secretary."

I see this as an undemocratic attempt to oust the elected leadership of Respect- and sideline the SWP a few members. In view of the SWP`s investment of time and effort in Respect, what is GG playing at?
 
i think you could see the CC of the SWP try to make respect more democratic and open after this
GG is not trying to oust the SWP or the left, i thought wrack was swp, smith was close to swp, german and rees swpcc, i would imagine after reading the document that lavellette would be in there as well, and if these argued for a more 'left' position thornett would have to support them
i think this is an opportunity for the swp to try to get more members involved (swp involvement in respect locally is dreadfully low)
and maybe bring back the USFIists into the fold
 
Yeah, where are you getting that impression from disownedspirit?

If the SWP were keen on making anything more democratic, I'd have imagined they'd start with their own party, not something they're trying to control.
 
JHE said:
Ta.

When and why did the Social Workers fall out of love with Salma Yaqoob? I thought they saw the sun shining out of her arse.

We haven't liked her since she packed a selection meeting in Birmingham to make sure Comrade Salmon was not duly elected as a candidate for the council elections.

To be honest I'm surprised you missed it.
 
Das Uberdog said:
We haven't liked her since she packed a selection meeting in Birmingham to make sure Comrade Salmon was not duly elected as a candidate for the council elections.

To be honest I'm surprised you missed it.

Salma has been one of Respect's greatest assets and remains so. There have been disagreements with Salma over selection of candidates. Helen Salmon would make a great councillor and it is a shame that she wasn't selected.
 
Well yeah, we couldn't do without her. But at the same time I know of alot of bad-will between Swappies close on the scene in Brum and the goings on of said selection meeting.
 
Das Uberdog said:
Well yeah, we couldn't do without her. But at the same time I know of alot of bad-will between Swappies close on the scene in Brum and the goings on of said selection meeting.

The chickens have come home to roost.
 
nah, the chickens just start crap threads like this :)... oh no, that would be pidgeons wouldn't it
 
Just wanted to say....................

nwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwmn! :D

Eermm...as you were.... *runs off*
 
Groucho said:
Salma has been one of Respect's greatest assets and remains so. There have been disagreements with Salma over selection of candidates. Helen Salmon would make a great councillor and it is a shame that she wasn't selected.

Helen Salmon being a true representative of the muslim community in Birmingham?
 
articul8 said:
Helen Salmon being a true representative of the muslim community in Birmingham?

Respect represents all those who want a progressive left alternative whatever their background. Salma Yaqoob is an excellent representative and so would Helen Salmon be.
 
Groucho said:
Respect represents all those who want a progressive left alternative whatever their background. Salma Yaqoob is an excellent representative and so would Helen Salmon be.

Certainly many in Respect want it to and genuinely I feel.

The problem as far as I can tell is that Respect does not decide its policies by mass meetings and democracy enough, is not accountable enough, is not based enough on the wider working class -

these are the crucial things I feel.

OK the national conference is democratic- as far as I am aware but there are many other questions e.g those Thornett raises here nearly a year ago

http://www.socialistresistance.net/openuprespect.htm

As a socialist I would also have many criticisms of its program- but that's far less crucial.

If Respect was more democratic and its leaders- or actually if it was democratic enough, its majority would be sufficient- determined to build a mass democratic participation I'd be for it despite many of my reservations and outright disagreements with many policies.

Socialist revolutionaries in Respect (and most of the SWP membership sees itslef as such as I say genuinely I think) should support those parts of Galloway's call that are for an opening up and democratisation of Respect, reject his idea of prescribing in advance whose on the committee and argue for a turn to class struggle

Also let's see if they can use Respect to build support for the Manchester health workers' strike http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=6416024#post6416024

If Respect became democratic and orientated to workers' struggles I'd consider supporting it but for the moment despite the best intentions of many in it it is still too narrow
 
Strumpet said:
Just wanted to say....................

nwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwmn! :D

Eermm...as you were.... *runs off*

Hey strumps - how're you doin babe?
 
Groucho said:
Salma has been one of Respect's greatest assets and remains so. There have been disagreements with Salma over selection of candidates. Helen Salmon would make a great councillor and it is a shame that she wasn't selected.

This is an absolutely ludicrous basis for an argument, typical of the SWP's current inability to distinguish between its own interests and the wider interests of Respect.

SWP member Helen Salmon stood for selection for Moseley and Kings Heath ward. In the 2006 local elections, Respect won 8% here!

There was never any chance of any selected candidate winning the seat and becoming a councillor.

A group of muslim members of Respect "packed" into the meeting (the wording in Socialist Worker is of course deliberately ambiguous http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=10591 with more than a hint of unfair practices) and voted for a local muslim male candidate, Yasir Idris.

That is their right! The candidate was keen to stand even though he knew he couldn't win. In the event he increased the vote from 586 to 947, still a long way behind Lib Dems on 2,728 and Labour on 2,143.

In an interview in Weekly W*nker, the Respect candidate gave a naive but apparently honest interview that indicated his strong desire to stand only in that ward, because he was brought up there and knew it well. He said he was encouraged by Salma Yaqoob, who wanted him to get involved in Respect. He also indicate a low level of knowledge of politics but a desire to learn more.

Now, let's take a deep breath, and suggest that in terms of increasing the Respect vote from poor to reasonable in that ward, he was the best candidate?

In the interview he also made the eminently sensible suggestion that maybe Helen Salmon should try her hand at Hall Green, a neighbouring and very similar seat demographically speaking to Moseley and Kings Heath.

The reason that this was eminently sensible was not pointed out in the interview, but I've made it clear in posts here, is that Hall Green was uncontested by Respect (and never has been). Yet it is one quarter of the new Birmingham Hall Green parliamentary seat, alongside Moseley and Kings Heath, Sparkbrook and Springfield. This seat represents Respect's best chance of getting Salma Yaqoob into parliament because it includes Sparkbrook, Yaqoob's ward, and Springfield, and where Respect polls very well. In fact Respect won a combined Sparkbrook/Springfield poll in May 2007. But Yaqoob's chance of winning the seat is going to be dependent on Respect polling respectable numbers of votes in both Moseley and King's Heath and Hall Green Wards.

Helen Salmon is a student (or recent ex-student); in defending her SW made no claim of local connections with King's Heath (she may have been brought up or live there for all I know, but SW did not see that as important - her position on the NUS executive was more important).

Why could the SWP not have bit their tongues after losing the selection in Moseley and Kings Heath, seen the case for standing Helen Salmon in Hall Green and then done their bit to help win the parliamentary seat for Salma Yaqoob??

The answer, I suspect, is in two parts:
1) A Respect candidate in Hall Green would have got the lowest Respect vote in Birmingham, maybe even 5% or less, the SWP's vanity prevents them from being associated with that score which they see as representing "the past" ie the Socialist Alliance.
2) The SWP fail to see the wider picture, 5% in Hall Green ward could make all the difference between Yaqoob winning or losing the parliamentary seat. They could not put their internal differences to one side and do something for the wider good of Respect.

But now the sh*t has hit the fan - Galloway has accused the SWP of trying to sideline Yaqoob; and it appears to have more than a glimmer of truth, caused by the SWP's fit of pique at not having their annointed one selected for an unwinnable seat of their choosing.

Happy to be corrected on any of these points, Groucho?
 
Lo Siento. said:
err... not that keen on Respect. But the strike is actually about the dismissal of an SWP/Respect activist...

So? Are you suggesting that we don't support a good trade unionist and a branch fighting cuts and privatisation because we don't support the party or political group that trade unionist is in?

That would be ridiculously sectarian - actually I think some people may indeed be just like that.

One of the things I don't like about the SWP is their tendency to only support campaigns they have started or think they can take over. They're not all like that but many are- I suspect it's encouraged by their leadership and notes to mebers and beleif that they are the party.


However, it is to shoot ourselves in the foot. It's irrelevant to this dispute.

Karen Reissmann is an excellent trade unionist; the Manchester Mental Health branch of Unison has had a long and largely successful campaign, including strike action, against cuts, defending jobs and services

every one- Respect or not- should support this strike
 
Karen Reissmann is an excellent trade unionist; the Manchester Mental Health branch of Unison has had a long and largely successful campaign, including strike action, against cuts, defending jobs and services

every one- Respect or not- should support this strike[/QUOTE]

True and if you are in a position to support the strike financially through your union branch donations can be sent to Unison Manchester community mental health branch.
 
Groucho said:
I am not aware of any sidelining of Salma Yaqoob.


So, Galloway has entirely made up his claim of "anathematisation" (aka sidelining) of Yaqoob?

"There is a custom of anathematisation in the organisation which is deeply unhealthy and has been the ruin of many a left-wing group before us. This began with Salma Yaqoob, once one of our star turns, promoted on virtually every platform, and who is responsible for some of the greatest election victories (and near misses) during our era.
Now she has been airbrushed from our history at just the time when she is becoming a regular feature on the national media and her impact on the politics of Britain’s second city has never been higher.
There appears to be no plan to rescue her from this perdition, indeed every sign that her internal exile is a fixture. This is intolerable and must end now. Whatever personal differences may exist between leading members the rest of us cannot allow Respect to be hobbled in this way. We are not over-endowed with national figures."

Galloway letter to Respect NC
http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/george-galloways-letter-to-respects-national-council/

If that's the reaction of the SWP, it is going to be a short meeting on Tuesday between Galloway and the SWP CC, since there is nothing to discuss if Galloway has made-it-all-up!
 
Fisher_Gate said:
So, Galloway has entirely made up his claim of "anathematisation" (aka sidelining) of Yaqoob?



If that's the reaction of the SWP, it is going to be a short meeting on Tuesday between Galloway and the SWP CC, since there is nothing to discuss if Galloway has made-it-all-up!

I'm not aware of it, are you?
 
Back
Top Bottom