respect (non galloway) come 3rd in leyton

[Fisher_Gate]

How curious that avowed 'S's' see the 'S' word as a political impediment in terms of campaigning particulalry in working class areas? The implication is that it is the working class rather than the 'revoutionaries' who must change first. Until then the left will continue to look down their noses at them. But after 40 barren years of refusing to bend the knee to 'populism' is it not high time the liberal left reviewed its strategy for social change?

You've misunderstood me - I was responding to Jim Page's post #75 in which he explicitly talks about getting socialists elected. Durruti then responded by comparing Respect with the IWCA/HI, which rather misses the point, since the IWCA/HI do not define themselves as socialists. He also claims they have more radical policies which I would deny (the "families" housing policy being deeply reactionary imo). I certainly do not see the 'S' word as an impediment.

 

[nwnm]

The SWP-backed conference was illegitimate. It is the SWP who have set up their own organisation.

Thats the first time I've heard of an afterbirth calling a baby a bastard

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Thats the first time I've heard of an afterbirth calling a baby a bastard

I assume your silence means that
a) you have no basis for disagreeing with my analysis that the Leyton result indicates a vote of 2.86% for an SWP-backed slate for the GLA?
b) you have no evidence to support your claim that on the basis of the Leyton result an SWP-backed slate is approaching the 5% needed to win a seat?

 

[nwnm]

I assume your silence means that
a) you have no basis for disagreeing with my analysis that the Leyton result indicates a vote of 2.86% for an SWP-backed slate for the GLA?
b) you have no evidence to support your claim that on the basis of the Leyton result an SWP-backed slate is approaching the 5% needed to win a seat?

In London, Livingstone may be ahead in the polls, but he has never been more politically damaged. Livingstone and several key members of his staff have had to fight off a number of attacks by the press. Also a growing number of Londoners are sick and tired of his support for the rich in the City of London and his support for the police. If you do not believe this then take a look at this week's Time Out magazine, where people speak passionately abut their frustration with Livingstone. For these reasons, and a myriad of others, it is important that we stand in the GLA elections and local elections. There is a desperate need for a radical, socialist alternative to Brown, Livingstone et al.


The Waltham Forrest by-election result makes interesting reading. Despite the Lib Dems making all the running, Carole Vincent and Respect won 7.3% of the vote and the Green's got 3.7% of the vote. That means that even in a difficult fight the combined vote was over 11%. Again an internal GLA report argues that around 15% of Londoners are to the left of Ken Livingstone. This support is illustrated by several hustings Respect has spoken at - Lindsey got a fantastic reception at a recent hustings in a predominantly African-Caribbean centre in Brixton. Our job over the next 8 weeks is to launch a campaign that can tap into the left anti-Labour mood and transform it into votes.

 

[chilango]

In London, Livingstone may be ahead in the polls, but he has never been more politically damaged. Livingstone and several key members of his staff have had to fight off a number of attacks by the press. Also a growing number of Londoners are sick and tired of his support for the rich in the City of London and his support for the police. If you do not believe this then take a look at this week's Time Out magazine, where people speak passionately abut their frustration with Livingstone. For these reasons, and a myriad of others, it is important that we stand in the GLA elections and local elections. There is a desperate need for a radical, socialist alternative to Brown, Livingstone et al.


The Waltham Forrest by-election result makes interesting reading. Despite the Lib Dems making all the running, Carole Vincent and Respect won 7.3% of the vote and the Green's got 3.7% of the vote. That means that even in a difficult fight the combined vote was over 11%. Again an internal GLA report argues that around 15% of Londoners are to the left of Ken Livingstone. This support is illustrated by several hustings Respect has spoken at - Lindsey got a fantastic reception at a recent hustings in a predominantly African-Caribbean centre in Brixton. Our job over the next 8 weeks is to launch a campaign that can tap into the left anti-Labour mood and transform it into votes.

Why are you combining the Respect and Green votes?

The Greens already have our own mayoral candidate.

 

[nwnm]

Why are you combining the Respect and Green votes?

The Greens already have our own mayoral candidate.

just pointing out that the vote to the left of labour was around 11%

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I...

The Waltham Forrest by-election result makes interesting reading. Despite the Lib Dems making all the running, Carole Vincent and Respect won 7.3% of the vote and the Green's got 3.7% of the vote. That means that even in a difficult fight the combined vote was over 11%. ...

Okay I can see we are going to have to take this more slowly ...

There were elections in 2004.

Are you keeping up with me?

The results for each ward have been published.

Still there?

In Leyton ward, for the first-past-the-post seat Respect got 255 vote out 2,035 - 11.5% (the Greens got 102 votes - 5.0% making the combined 'left' vote in this ward 16.5% in 2004)

THE VOTE ON 14TH FEBRUARY 2008 IN LEYTON WARD FOR THE SWP-BACKED CANDIDATE WAS WORSE THAN THAT FOR RESPECT IN 2004. A LOT WORSE, AND IF TRANSLATED AT THE LONDON WIDE LEVEL WOULD PRODUCE A VOTE FOR THE SWP-BACKED LIST OF 2.86%.

Have you got it now?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

The Respect candidate for City and East London GLA constituency seat, Newham Councillor Hanif Abdulmuhit selected in July 2007, is being challenged by the SWP, who have selected Michael Gavan and will attempt to split the vote in the constituency seat that produced the best result for the left in 2004.

This ends any fiction that the SWP front claims to be the continuity of Respect.

It also indicates a kamikaze approach by the SWP, since it is obvious the SWP will do a lot worse than Respect.

There is a spectre haunting the SWP - the ghost of Gerry Healy.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

...For these reasons, and a myriad of others, it is important that we stand in the GLA elections and local elections.

...

What local elections? (assuming you are still talking about Livingstone and therefore London).

 

[osterberg]

The Respect candidate for City and East London GLA constituency seat, Newham Councillor Hanif Abdulmuhit selected in July 2007, is being challenged by the SWP, who have selected Michael Gavan and will attempt to split the vote in the constituency seat that produced the best result for the left in 2004.

This ends any fiction that the SWP front claims to be the continuity of Respect.

It also indicates a kamikaze approach by the SWP, since it is obvious the SWP will do a lot worse than Respect.

There is a spectre haunting the SWP - the ghost of Gerry Healy.

Oh dear, this is all just degenerating into name calling , isn't it ?
Fisher, the best way to prove that nwnm is wrong and that renewal is the "real" Respect is to prise yourself away from your keyboard and start campaigning and organising for it . The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

 

[BarryB]

The Waltham Forrest by-election result makes interesting reading. Despite the Lib Dems making all the running, Carole Vincent and Respect won 7.3% of the vote and the Green's got 3.7% of the vote. That means that even in a difficult fight the combined vote was over 11%. Again an internal GLA report argues that around 15% of Londoners are to the left of Ken Livingstone. This support is illustrated by several hustings Respect has spoken at - Lindsey got a fantastic reception at a recent hustings in a predominantly African-Caribbean centre in Brixton. Our job over the next 8 weeks is to launch a campaign that can tap into the left anti-Labour mood and transform it into votes.

Why was the Leyton by election difficult for SWP Respect? The Labour/Lib Dem Coalition that runs Waltham Forest have been making cuts to council services such as libraries, toilets, museums. You had a candidate who was very well known locally. You had loads of SWP members coming from outside Waltham Forest to campaign. The chances of the Tories doing well in Leyton were non existent. Despite having a decent candidate the Greens were very unlikely to do well in this part of Waltham Forest. Yet even with all these favourable circumstances you only got 7.3% of the vote. Thats by no means a disasterous vote but neither is it right to portray it as a good vote.

BarryB

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Oh dear, this is all just degenerating into name calling , isn't it ?
Fisher, the best way to prove that nwnm is wrong and that renewal is the "real" Respect is to prise yourself away from your keyboard and start campaigning and organising for it . The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Sure. I'll be off down Manchester way over the next few weeks to campaign for Steve Hall in Atherton and Kay Phillips in Cheetham in May's elections. There's not much I can do at 6am in the morning though and London is a bit far, especially when I've got some local campaigning on the doorstep.

If the SWP reopen negotiations and seek endorsement as Respect for their candidates in Preston, then I'll canvass/leaflet for them too. Though I am told that there is likely to be only one, rather than the 5 that stood last time.

I'll be forced into voting Labour of course on 1st May, but I'll wear gloves and have a peg for my nose as usual.

The point about commenting on the GLA City and East London constituency race is that this is not some local abheration. This is a quite clear decision by the SWP CC to attempt to smash what had been built by Respect electorally, in Newham and Tower Hamlets, its most successful areas, in particular. Hopefully the voters will actually see this attempt for what it is, and overwhelmingly reject the SWP candidate. Unfortunately the danger is that they will see it as a Monty Python style farce and say 'a plague on both your houses

As such, it takes the SWP nearer to becoming sectarians first and foremost, and socialists only second. The SLL/WRP went down just such a path in the late 1960s and early 1970s, culminating in a lunatic sectarian phase around 1974, and collapse thereafter.

 

[osterberg]

Sorry,Fisher.That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.Glad you do some activity as well as posting on here. Me,I'm getting a bit tired of all this stuff on the interwebby.
Best of luck

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Sorry,Fisher.That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.Glad you do some activity as well as posting on here. Me,I'm getting a bit tired of all this stuff on the interwebby.
Best of luck

Stupidity theory rather than conspiracy. The logical consequence of a faulty political line. John Rees couldn't conspire his way out of a paper bag as his total failure with the Electoral Commission and the Dubai dodgy cheque proves.

 

[nwnm]

saying the same thing repeatedly may reassure you - but has little effect on anyone else. Save the john rees assertions for your john rees thread - whith a grand total of 0 people found interesting enough to comment on....

 

[nwnm]

Why was the Leyton by election difficult for SWP Respect? The Labour/Lib Dem Coalition that runs Waltham Forest have been making cuts to council services such as libraries, toilets, museums. You had a candidate who was very well known locally. You had loads of SWP members coming from outside Waltham Forest to campaign. The chances of the Tories doing well in Leyton were non existent. Despite having a decent candidate the Greens were very unlikely to do well in this part of Waltham Forest. Yet even with all these favourable circumstances you only got 7.3% of the vote. Thats by no means a disasterous vote but neither is it right to portray it as a good vote.

BarryB

see the post you quoted from. The lib dems made most of the running due to the dodgy behaviour of New Lab in the previous election.... Hence the vote. (also, as pointed out on many occasions, the Gallowayistas walking away from the project will have some effect on the vote...)

 

[Fisher_Gate]

saying the same thing repeatedly may reassure you - but has little effect on anyone else. Save the john rees assertions for your john rees thread - whith a grand total of 0 people found interesting enough to comment on....

So you admit there is no evidence to back your claim that the Leyton result shows the SWP are en route for 5% on May 1st?

 

[nwnm]

So you admit there is no evidence to back your claim that the Leyton result shows the SWP are en route for 5% on May 1st?

As we got over 7%, no I won't.... (This will get tedious for everyone else, but I can keep this up as long as you can)

 

[BarryB]

see the post you quoted from. The lib dems made most of the running due to the dodgy behaviour of New Lab in the previous election.... Hence the vote. (also, as pointed out on many occasions, the Gallowayistas walking away from the project will have some effect on the vote...)

As Ive said before the Lib Dems in Waltham Forest are in a coalition with Labour and are cutting services. Obviously you are incapable of challenging this.

BarryB

 

[Fisher_Gate]

As we got over 7%, no I won't.... (This will get tedious for everyone else, but I can keep this up as long as you can)

So 7.2% in 2008 is a better vote than 11.5% for Respect in 2004?

Welcome to Healy-land!

 

[nwnm]

As Ive said before the Lib Dems in Waltham Forest are in a coalition with Labour and are cutting services. Obviously you are incapable of challenging this.

BarryB

so people are only capable of challenging this when there's an election.....

 

[nwnm]

So 7.2% in 2008 is a better vote than 11.5% for Respect in 2004?

Welcome to Healy-land!

its above the 5% threshold needed during the GLA campaign - therefore an OK start

 

[Fisher_Gate]

its above the 5% threshold needed during the GLA campaign - therefore an OK start

The 5% threshold is across the whole of london but left wing votes are unevenly distributed.

In 2004 Respect got 4.7% across the whole of London, but 11.5% in Leyton.

Therefore the SWP would need to have got better than 11.5% in Leyton to have a hope of a 5% vote across London.

It's a simple enough logic - why can't you get it?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

so people are only capable of challenging this when there's an election.....

Elections are your party's benchmark for success.

Respect was, is and has to continue to be a campaigning coalition - a vibrant part of working class struggle in every locality. We want to be involved in every campaign and strike.
...
We have got to keep the Respect flag flying on other fronts too. Meetings and events around issues like gun crime, housing and the events in Pakistan have drawn a wide and diverse audience for our ideas.

But for Respect to really provide a challenge to Labour it has to have electoral successes.

(emphasis added)

Martin Smith, SWP National Secretary
Socialist Review
December 2007
http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=10186

 

[nwnm]

Elections are your party's benchmark for success.

the article your quoting also says this

"Respect was, is and has to continue to be a campaigning coalition - a vibrant part of working class struggle in every locality. We want to be involved in every campaign and strike. It was a very proud moment when Karen Reissmann thanked Respect conference delegates for their solidarity during her strike. Many Respect activists had collected money and visited her on the picket line."

stopping council house sell offs etc, are a benchmark for success also.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

the article your quoting also says this

"Respect was, is and has to continue to be a campaigning coalition - a vibrant part of working class struggle in every locality. We want to be involved in every campaign and strike. It was a very proud moment when Karen Reissmann thanked Respect conference delegates for their solidarity during her strike. Many Respect activists had collected money and visited her on the picket line."

stopping council house sell offs etc, are a benchmark for success also.

So the words "but" and "really", that follow that quote do not mean anything?

You have a strange idea about the meaning of words. Only marginally different to your strange ideas about the meaning of numbers. I understand it is possible to join courses to improve basic literacy and numeracy.

But for Respect to really provide a challenge to Labour it has to have electoral successes.

 

[nwnm]

So the words "but" and "really", that follow that quote do not mean anything? You have a strange idea about the meaning of words. Only marginally different to your strange ideas about the meaning of numbers. I understand it is possible to join courses to improve basic literacy and numeracy.

The article concludes -

"The row in Respect does not mean that the world has stopped. Opposition to the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq is at an all time high and there is the real possibility that Gordon Brown might support a US attack on Iran. On the home front Brown is attempting to drive down the real take home pay of public sector workers. The need for a left alternative to New Labour is as strong as ever. We have a vision of Respect that offers hope to those fighting imperialism and neoliberalism. Our job is to turn this vision into reality."

We have to fight elections and aim to win them - but they are not the be all and end all. I think you spent too much time 'embedded' in the labour party - you are obsessed with elections.

You have many strange ideas and obsessions - unfortunately you appear beyond help

 

[Fisher_Gate]

The article concludes -

"The row in Respect does not mean that the world has stopped. Opposition to the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq is at an all time high and there is the real possibility that Gordon Brown might support a US attack on Iran. On the home front Brown is attempting to drive down the real take home pay of public sector workers. The need for a left alternative to New Labour is as strong as ever. We have a vision of Respect that offers hope to those fighting imperialism and neoliberalism. Our job is to turn this vision into reality."

We have to fight elections and aim to win them - but they are not the be all and end all. I think you spent too much time 'embedded' in the labour party - you are obsessed with elections.

You have many strange ideas and obsessions - unfortunately you appear beyond help

Obsessed with facts - is 7.2% higher or lower than 11.5%? Answer the question

By the way - you started the thread... about election results.

Not about fighting imperialism and neoliberalism

... who's really the obsessed one?

 

[nwnm]

Obsessed with facts - is 7.2% higher or lower than 11.5%? Answer the question

By the way - you started the thread... about election results.

Not about fighting imperialism and neoliberalism

... who's really the obsessed one?

check the number of threads I've started on elections and compare them with your own Then check the number of posts I've made on threads about elections and check them against your own The words anal and retentive spring to mind.

On the figures - can you confirm that this is the first time respect has stood in Leyton ward? You are not comparing like with like. You might as well ask if George Galloway impersonating a cat might reduce his vote in the next election......

 

[dennisr]

check the number of threads I've started on elections and compare them with your own Then check the number of posts I've made on threads about elections and check them against your own The words anal and retentive spring to mind.

i may dislike nwnm - but he's certainly got a point here