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Respect: its hierarchy and internal workings

actually i think you'll find a hell of a lot of people are interested in parties' internal workings - especially people who might be considering joining them! one of the biggest complaints against blair from ex-labour people is about how he has destroyed any real democracy within the party. many others on the left recall the hopes they had with scargills SLP, but how that was a completely and utterly undemocratic organisation which they left disillusioned and often cynical. any serious person is concerned about a groups internal regime - how can they affect its decisions etc.
 
peaceNow04 said:
since when do parties publish all the compelling details of internal workings for the average voter...? (digestives consumed @ weekly meet etc) if you want to be involved fair enough.. if you have an issue you would like us to look at fair enough.. why exactly would you want to know reporting structures unless you want to be involved in them.. :confused:

Well about 90 seconds of google gave me

http://www.labour.org.uk/labourdemocracy/
http://www.conservatives.com/people/board.cfm?type=party
http://www.libdems.org.uk/index.cfm/page.main/section.people

Minutes of Labour Party NEC meetings are here
http://www.annblack.com/nec_june2004.htm
 
peaceNow04 said:
yeah its really fuckin unbelievable that meetings open to all members elect steering committees... it should all b done by tv poll big brother styleeee

do me a favour
what n tell you to shut up before you embarass yourself? :)

there is NO democratic structure within Respect at the moment. Steering Groups from 'the regions' are a small step, but as even you say they are only just beginning to be created. btw - what 'regions' the euro consituencies? If so, why them, such completely false and unrealistic entities, it would be a stupid way to elect any kind of democratic body. having them town/city based seems far more sensible - and more democratic in reality!
 
They made sense for the EUROPEAN elections. As I said we are now electing town, area and city steering committees through local open meetings to respect members. I have never known anyone I would want to join SWP/RESPECT/STWC ask about internal organisation before joining. We don't want people worn down by the SLP we want NEW radical people.
 
levien said:
They made sense for the EUROPEAN elections. As I said we are now electing town, area and city steering committees through local open meetings to respect members. I have never known anyone I would want to join SWP/RESPECT/STWC ask about internal organisation before joining. We don't want people worn down by the SLP we want NEW radical people.
The royal we i note.

"I have never known anyone I would want to join SWP/RESPECT/STWC ask about internal organisation before joining."

Sums it up. Quality membership that.
 
levien said:
They made sense for the EUROPEAN elections. As I said we are now electing town, area and city steering committees through local open meetings to respect members. I have never known anyone I would want to join SWP/RESPECT/STWC ask about internal organisation before joining. We don't want people worn down by the SLP we want NEW radical people.
fair enough re the SLP, but not as regards many of the labour people you are hoping to join up. anyone involved in politics for any length of time wants to be involved in democratic organisatins, its hardly an unreasonable question to ask.
 
Listen to yourself Levien.

RESPECT has no democratic structures of any kind. It has a steering committee which makes the decisions. That SC was "elected" as a block from a predetermined list at a rally how many months ago?

There are no branches. No structure that allows rank and file members to feed their opinions upwards, let alone to determine policy or activity. It is, in all probability, the least democratic political party in Britain.

And what's your response? Is it a defence of that set up? Hardly. Just the unbelievably condescending attitude that people aren't interested in that kind of thing. I suppose how could anyone who can stay in the SWP for a couple of years imagine that anyone else cares about trivial stuff like democracy.
 
"no democratic structures of any kind"

What about the regional committees, city/town/area meetings and report backs. Not to mention the local steering committees or the fact that an open meeting to respect members is held before standing a candidate or any other major decision. Or the fact that the national conference is only months away.
 
belboid: the regional steering groups were set up prior to the Euro/ London election campaigns.

They were usually the same meetings that the vote on who was to be a candidate happened.

This was 2-6 weeks after the founding conference.

Ours had 200 people in it (I counted, but I can't remember the figure now - it might have been 250) though the rest of the left claimed something stupid like 80 - 150, depending on who they were.

The problem is that any decisions made locally to me are made and then not acted upon if they are not consistent with the local steering group or the national one. That makes it hard to feel like much of a member, and is why I'm not.

It is claimed by RESPECT members at Marxism that this is unique to my area. I agreed to meet up and talk about it, but I'm still waiting for the promised contact (within a week).
 
"how do I get involved?" is the normal question. Much more healthy then "whats your branch meeting structure." Theres people that do and people that talk.
 
Flim PM me the details of who and what you want people to contact you about and I'll chase it up for you.
 
levien said:
"how do I get involved?" is the normal question. Much more healthy then "whats your branch meeting structure." Theres people that do and people that talk.
Does not get it. Shut up.

Healthy? Healy?
 
Levien, its ok: they know where I am and I see at least one RESPECT member every working day, thanks anyway. I'm not that eager and getting less so most days.

I've just realised that levien has said they are electing steering groups now. I do recall someone saying at the first local election that they would recall and re-elect after June 10th - it that the case everywhere.
 
I think so. Is it national respect or local respect you are waiting on? Respect national office is a bit hectic if thats the case.
 
levien said:
"how do I get involved?" is the normal question. Much more healthy then "whats your branch meeting structure." Theres people that do and people that talk.

Too right

When I joined the Labour party I didn't ask what the branch structure was first & AFAIK no else in out CLP did.

When I joined the SWP I was far more interested in what people had to say & what we were doing to ask what the branch structure is.

When I got involved with RESPECT - the same

Oh do get a grip people

Have a chocolate hobnob & chill

KoD
 
so you don't give a shit about whether its a democratic organisation or not? c'mon, from the responses by supporters, its almost as if democracy isn't important.

fair enough, its a new organisation who will not have every last comma and dot worked out, and it will probably address these questions at the conference shortly. But, at the moment, it is totally ad hoc, with any major decision being taken by a couple of people in backroom deals. thats not good, as i'm sure you recognise
 
It's not about being "anal", it's about thinking that DEMOCRACY MATTERS!

I mean here we have a number of people who think of themselves as socialists, who are seriously arguing that well, all that democracy stuff its not what people care about. I'm only interested in how I can get involved, not in who makes the decisions.

If you people don't see that democracy is important it reveals a great deal. It also reminds me just why people say that the SWP miseducates its members politically.
 
I thought that SWP members wanted to use RESPECT in order to argue for socialism and to get it towards a mass working class party. Won't they need a functioning demcratic structure to make this happen? Or are they OK with no structure because their leaders are part of the backroom crowd? What if RESPECT becomes the mass party (with the SWP in the minority) that the SWP want it to become?
 
I think that the "little mystery"* of the RUC's internal workings could be solved by a request to the electoral commission or whoever registers political parties. It's my understanding that each party on registration has to provide a copy of its constitution and the names &c of its officers to be filed away and hopefully shown to interested members of the public.

I think it's quite telling that rebel warrior says that
there will be a national conference at the end of October where I expect policy etc. will be debated and decided on and more democratic structures, a constitution, etc created.
From this, several conclusions are inescapable.

Firstly, the policies the RUC has stood on thus far aren't worth the paper they're written on. Their promises are without value, as is the founding statement, and every single piece of election material they have thus far produced.

Secondly, whatever else the RUC currently is, it is not democratic. Although - in the RUC's founding statement - they have declared that "There is a crisis of representation, a democratic deficit, at the heart of politics in Britain. We aim to offer a solution to this crisis", it is evident that the crisis in representation which they've identified extends to very top of the RUC itself!

Were I a member of this misbegotten organisation, there are several questions I'd like answers to now, not in three months' time.

1) Who decided that the RUC would stand as "Respect: the Unity Coalition - George Galloway"?

2) Who decided to boycott the Independent, and who decided that such a boycott was a bad idea?

3) Who is in charge of the office? And who appointed them?

4) Who selected the candidates?

5) What is George Galloway's position in the RUC? And who appointed him to it?

6) Who wrote the manifestos, and who decided on the content?

7) Will anyone be disciplined for slagging off the membership?

8) What rules and regulations have governed the workings of the RUC since its foundation?

_____
*rebel warrior, post 14
 
respect is run by the swp with the muslim association of britain and george galloway having a veto over any decisions made. basically you can argue for anything as long as its not socialist working class or in support of womens or lesbian and gay rights.
 
fanciful said:
respect is run by the swp with the muslim association of britain and george galloway having a veto over any decisions made. basically you can argue for anything as long as its not socialist working class or in support of womens or lesbian and gay rights.
Maybe, but I think you're being a little pessimistic there. With a bit of luck, some people will raise some of the "shibboleths" at the gathering of the Respec' ulema in October. It'd be interesting if they discussed (i) freedom for gay men and lesbians and (ii) abortion rights. Will such discussion be allowed?

There are at least two other (very topical) issues they should discuss:
  • 'faith schools' (i.e., schools run by religious denominations and devoted to indoctrinating pupils) - I believe the Social Workers are now in favour of them and, in particular, in favour of having more Islamic schools - and
  • the govt's proposal to create a new crime of incitement to religious hatred - possibly outlawing much free speech on religion (including free speech by promoters of various religions)
Roll on October. I'm expecting a good laugh at the ideological contortions of the Social Workers and plenty more ammunition against the Islamo-Trot lash-up.
 
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