Respect hits new low

[JHE]

So why would the police say it was racist?

That's pretty obvious. There was a big gang fight - involving 70 people according to one of the articles linked above. One group was white. The other was 'Asian' (Pakistani). Whatever kicked off this particular battle, it was apparently fought on racial lines. The police criterion for saying it is racist is that racial epithets were heard. Fine. TBH, even if no witness had remembered racial abuse, it'd be hard to believe that there was no racial aspect when the sides were as they have been reported.

Do you agree with urbanrevo that the white fighters are the baddies and the 'Asians' the heroes of the piece? Yes, of course you do.




In Respec's heartland in the East End there was an appalling racist attack in the run up to the local elections. It wasn't a brawl between two large gangs grouped along racial lines. It was a clear-cut case of racist thugs attacking and maiming innocent people.

Machete mob in race hate attack

03 May 2006

A MAN whose head was sliced open with a machete by a racist mob as he tried to protect two young women has been left paralysed down one side.

Tower Hamlets police say the gang attack is being treated as racially motivated.

John Payne, 33, a construction superviser for South Quay-based company Construction Resources Ltd, and two friends were viciously set upon by a gang of Asian youths wielding machetes and metal bars in Stepney on April 8.

At around 11.30 pm that night, John was walking two young female friends home after an evening out. The trouble started when John, friends Sarah O'Leary and Jenny Curran, both 21, and Jenny's brother Denny, 19, who also works for Construction Resources Ltd, turned into the car park of Dagobert House, off Jamaica Street.

Det Con McCullogh of Tower Hamlets police said that a gang of between six and nine Asian youths, aged between 16 and 20, were waiting in the car park.

They shouted racist insults at John and his friends, who told them to be quiet. They were then set upon by the gang, which swelled to a mob of 20 as other Asian youths rushed to join in the beating.

Despite John and Denny's attempts to protect her, Jenny was repeatedly punched and kicked, and struck on the head with a metal pole.

Denny and John were both hacked around the head with machetes, leaving John with a deep wound.

Sarah O'Leary was the only member of the group who was uninjured, and was therefore able to call the police.

John was taken to intensive care at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel.

He is now paralysed down one side of his body, and has slurred speech and memory loss. He has regained some movement, but it is still uncertain whether he will be able to work again.

"We are treating this as a racist attack because of the language used by the suspects," said DC McCollogh.​

http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co....7:35:48:163&tBrand=ELAOnline&tCategory=search


Funnily enough, there has not been a peep out of the Respekites about this.

 

[mutley]

Firstly, if the brawl was between two large gangs, one of which was asian, and one white, and racial language was used, then i'd be hard pressed to find a definition of 'racist' that didn't characterise that as such. It might have started with some other issue then quickly became polarised along racial lines.

Second on the TH story yes it's appalling, but I don't think that every story like that should then lead to a large-scale hue and cry. The Preston incident appears to have involved larger numbers, and somebody's dead. It also made national coverage repeatedly. The TH one, if it did make national news, was missed by me. I don't think that it would be positive if every single racial incident was blasted in the headlines, or blown up by councillors from whatever party but people will comment about the ones that are.

Added in edit: do i think that the asian gang are heroes and the whites baddies? No - i don't know if it was a racially polarised gang fight or asian kids defending themselves against a purely racist attack. But the theory that this slightly boffin-sounding former grammar pupil was 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' does sound the most likely explanation in his case. Am i saying that grammar school A* boffin types never get in street scraps? No but in my experience of teaching for over a decade it's rare, so i think the wrong place at the wrong time explanation is the likely one.

 

[JHE]

Firstly, if the brawl was between two large gangs, one of which was asian, and one white, and racial language was used, then i'd be hard pressed to find a definition of 'racist' that didn't characterise that as such. It might have started with some other issue then quickly became polarised along racial lines.

I completely agree - but unlike urbanrevo (and you?) I don't assume that the Asians were in any way in the right.

Second on the TH story yes it's appalling, but I don't think that every story like that should then lead to a large-scale hue and cry. The Preston incident appears to have involved larger numbers, and somebody's dead. It also made national coverage repeatedly. The TH one, if it did make national news, was missed by me. I don't think that it would be positive if every single racial incident was blasted in the headlines, or blown up by councillors from whatever party but people will comment about the ones that are.

I don't think it did get any national coverage. Lots of thuggery, including racist thuggery, in east London does not.

If it had been the other way round, with a group of Bengalis hacked with machetes by a racist mob, Respec' would have been shouting about it. You know this as well as I do.

 

[JHE]

Added in edit: do i think that the asian gang are heroes and the whites baddies? No - i don't know if it was a racially polarised gang fight or asian kids defending themselves against a purely racist attack.

Or white people defending themselves? Or a bit of both? Like you, I don't know.

 

[mutley]

Or white people defending themselves? Or a bit of both? Like you, I don't know.

No, but Lavallettte is in a better position to make a judgement about that, being up there. And no Respect do not automatically jump on every white on black/asian case and shout it from the rooftops, cos it doesn't always help to actually reduce racism.

Anyway i've got stuff to do but i'll look back later.

 

[JimPage]

What the hell does that mean? Why rush to assume it's a 'racist murder' if racism wasn't definately the cause of the fight, and you've no idea who said what to whom

the SWP will always call it a Racist Murder in order to sell more papers and recruit more members via whichever front organisation they are pretending to be today. this sounds more like a brawl between two groups of lads which went wrong one many this last weekend

its as dangerous to call something non- racist as racist as not to call something racist, racist, if you get my drift

 

[articul8]

Clearly, some degree of racism was manifested in the course of the attack. Which is not necessarily enough to suggest that racism was the prime (or sole) cause of the aggro - which is what "racist attack" implies.

Cops are frantically covering their backs with this kind of rushed and confused statement (post MacPherson) and it suits the SWP to generalise this instance into something broader.

Maybe FG can tell us why Preston Respect's website has been down for hours and hours since the attack?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

the report I read said that the police had said this was racial because of language used during the fighting. That would obviously imply that some of the attackers were racist to some extent (how much we dont know, sadly in an attack it is quite likely that people will say almost anything to wind up the 'enemy'), but that is not the same as saying that the attack was explicitly motivated by racism - which is surely what 'racist attack' actually means.

The interview with the police on local radio indicated that there was no evidence the murdered asian youth was associated with the fighting - he may have been just passing on his way home and been attacked because he was asian, was the implication of the interview I heard yesterday. However there is a shortage of witnesses so the police appealed for more to come forward.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

There are more than two people arrested, it is at least four. Are you in regular conversation with the police on this matter?
....

No I have no special link to the police. Read what I say more carefully. The news report I linked to said that police had stated that two people were arrested under suspicion of murder and that's exactly what I said in my post. Other people were at the time arrested but not primarily under suspicion of murder.

The local press have now reported that three people have been charged in court with murder - two have non-asian names and can be assumed to be white, the third's name has not been released because s/he is under 18.

http://www.lep.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1649357

 

[killer b]

is the OP for real? some local councillors do what any local councillor of any party would do (if they want to keep their seat), and it's some great victory for respect? marvellous...

when is steven brooks up for election again? must be soon... i don't reckon much to his chances of staying in next time either way...

 

[articul8]

The interview with the police on local radio indicated that there was no evidence the murdered asian youth was associated with the fighting - he may have been just passing on his way home and been attacked because he was asian, .

Why assert it is a racist attack, when that is only one possibility? This might turn out to be accurate, but wouldn't it be better to keep an open mind on the subject?

The local press have now reported that three people have been charged in court with murder - two have non-asian names and can be assumed to be white

Do you mean to imply that any white-on-asian attack is automatically racist in character?

 

[killer b]

Why assert it is a racist attack, when that is only one possibility? This might turn out to be accurate, but wouldn't it be better to keep an open mind on the subject?

because it helps their agenda to characterise it as such, whatever the truth?

it doesn't help preston much though.. the mood here is pretty grim at the moment.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

how the fuck does Lavalette know?

Was he there?

Lavalette has been asked by the family of the murdered asian youth to be their official spokesperson. Presumably the family don't think he knows fuck all?

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1650404

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Why assert it is a racist attack, when that is only one possibility? This might turn out to be accurate, but wouldn't it be better to keep an open mind on the subject?

Do you mean to imply that any white-on-asian attack is automatically racist in character?

No, a white-on-asian attack is not necessarily automatically racist. But it would have been difficult to assert an asian-on-asian attack was. The police are not saying it is "only one possibility". They are saying they believe it was a racist attack. They may not be right. I have not passed judgement on whether their belief is right or wrong.

 

[killer b]

with all due respect to the recently bereaved family, i don't think their opinion can really be viewed as impartial on the subject...

 

[belboid]

No, a white-on-asian attack is not necessarily automatically racist. But it would have been difficult to assert an asian-on-asian attack was. The police are not saying it is "only one possibility". They are saying they believe it was a racist attack. They may not be right. I have not passed judgement on whether their belief is right or wrong.

you have written a number of posts which strongly imply you support that opinion - and this sudden agreeing with the polices view on crime is a tad bizarre to say the least. The post-mcpherson definition of 'racist attack' (that someone involved believes it was such a thing) is ludicrous and doesnt stand up at all.

As to Lavalette -I didnt say he 'knew fuck all' so I'd be grateful for you not putting words in my mouth. As seemingly the most prominent councillor in the ward, I'm not surprised the family have asked for his close involvement, but that does not mean he is right in his immediate (seemingly) off the cuff remark.

 

[killer b]

callon estate isn't in central ward is it? isn't it st matthews?

or, indeed, fishwick...

either way, lavelette isn't their local councillor.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

you have written a number of posts which strongly imply you support that opinion - and this sudden agreeing with the polices view on crime is a tad bizarre to say the least. The post-mcpherson definition of 'racist attack' (that someone involved believes it was such a thing) is ludicrous and doesnt stand up at all.

As to Lavalette -I didnt say he 'knew fuck all' so I'd be grateful for you not putting words in my mouth. As seemingly the most prominent councillor in the ward, I'm not surprised the family have asked for his close involvement, but that does not mean he is right in his immediate (seemingly) off the cuff remark.

Lavalette is not the councillor for the ward. The Callon estate is part of Fishwick ward, the City Councillors for which are: Councillor Harold Parker Labour and Councillor Mrs Sharon Cynthia Riley Liberal Democrats (originally elected as a Tory). Lavalette represents Town Centre Ward which borders the Callon estate but does not include it.

As for putting words in your mouth - you were the one who asked the question "what the fuck does Lavalette know?". Do you seriously think he would make an "off-the-cuff" statement to the press about such a sensitive issue as a murder, without finding out the views and facts from the ground first?

There's no implication whatsoever in my post that I agree with the police statement that this was a racist attack. I'm just stating what they have said. By stating the Police view I am not necessarily saying that I therefore agree with it. I am just saying the police say this is a racist murder. Lavalette has welcomed the police assumption that it is racist murder, but he obviously has more access to information than I do.

 

[blackadder]

No I have no special link to the police. Read what I say more carefully.

Whats with the attitude? I simply stated what it says on page 2 of yesterdays LEP (mon 24th july)

Four men were still being quizzed about the murder of Shezan Umarji

I know it dosen't say arrested, but quizzed usually means they have been arrested, no? And the question about you having regular conversation with the police was simply that, a question. Thanks for clearing that up anyway.

As for cause of this incident, I was told at work this morning that the trouble started because a expensive car got scratched by a bike rider (not clear if it was a motor or push bike).

Also, the media seem to have dropped the race angle in their latest reports, which is good.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Whats with the attitude? I simply stated what it says on page 2 of yesterdays LEP (mon 24th july)

I know it dosen't say arrested, but quizzed usually means they have been arrested, no? ...

And I was summarising what the BBC said. The LEP report came out after my post.

Eight people have been arrested - two on suspicion of murder and six on suspicion of violent disorder.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5207426.stm

Obviously the BBC and LEP were getting different information or the police didn't arrest some until after I had posted.

 

[John Grean]

Cops are frantically covering their backs with this kind of rushed and confused statement (post MacPherson) and it suits the SWP to generalise this instance into something broader.

My personal feeling is that both the liberal and conservative wings of the Police deliberately squeal racism in instances like this, but for different reasons.

The liberals do so to to cringe to Blair, New labour and the wealthy and powerful so-called 'human rights anti racism' lobby.

The conservatives do it to embarrass New Labour because they know that by whites being constantly being blamed for racism, and other ethnic groups constantly portrayed as victims, pisses off white people so much there is a growing backlash against vile middle class political correctness manifested by support for the BNP.

Typically the SWP and all their front groups are more than happy to side with millionaire lawyers and ethnic minorites against the white working class, displaying the idiocy which makes them the most hated group on the left.

 

[treelover]

That is bloody awful, have anyone been arrested for this and what has been the response of the local community.

n Respec's heartland in the East End there was an appalling racist attack in the run up to the local elections. It wasn't a brawl between two large gangs grouped along racial lines. It was a clear-cut case of racist thugs attacking and maiming innocent people.

Machete mob in race hate attack

03 May 2006

A MAN whose head was sliced open with a machete by a racist mob as he tried to protect two young women has been left paralysed down one side.

Tower Hamlets police say the gang attack is being treated as racially motivated.

John Payne, 33, a construction superviser for South Quay-based company Construction Resources Ltd, and two friends were viciously set upon by a gang of Asian youths wielding machetes and metal bars in Stepney on April 8.

At around 11.30 pm that night, John was walking two young female friends home after an evening out. The trouble started when John, friends Sarah O'Leary and Jenny Curran, both 21, and Jenny's brother Denny, 19, who also works for Construction Resources Ltd, turned into the car park of Dagobert House, off Jamaica Street.

Det Con McCullogh of Tower Hamlets police said that a gang of between six and nine Asian youths, aged between 16 and 20, were waiting in the car park.

They shouted racist insults at John and his friends, who told them to be quiet. They were then set upon by the gang, which swelled to a mob of 20 as other Asian youths rushed to join in the beating.

 

[treelover]

Oh dear Faisal Bodi in CIF in the Guardian has gone and attacked the 'white underclass' as a problem now:, feral, criminal, uneducated and dangerous contrasting them with the peace loving, academically minded and entrepreneurial asian community in Fishwick. In fact some of it could be described as racist and it may be get legally challenged. It certainly won't help race relations in the area, the BNP will love it.

The racists are driven by envy of Asian success

My home town, Preston, doesn't feel like Britain's race hate capital. But the social decay in white areas has created tensions

Faisal Bodi
Wednesday July 26, 2006
The Guardian

To the outsider there's little to suggest that Fishwick Parade, the scene of Saturday's fatal stabbing of 20-year-old Shezan Umarji, is much different from any other predominantly Asian inner-city area in northern England, or that Shezan was a victim of a rampant racism that has led to Preston, my home town, being described as Britain's race-hate capital.

The floral tributes to Shezan, around a tree near where he fell, are signed by both Muslims and Christians. White and Asian residents tick off journalists for portraying a misleading image of a racially torn town. And the heavy police presence isn't too unusual in a part of Preston renowned as one of its toughest and roughest.

Residents are used to things kicking off around here. They put it down to youths fighting over turf, burnishing their gang credentials. But that is to gloss over the fact that in most cases the conflicts are played out along racial lines. Even now, beneath the shared sense of grief at the loss of a young life, the climate is one in which two communities coexist uneasily in the knowledge that a highly charged youngster from either side could trigger another clash.

Head east along Fishwick Parade and the predominantly Asian area gives way to the almost exclusively white Callon estate. Callon is the kind of place where youths tear up and down the streets on mini motorbikes and hurl bricks at fire engines arriving to put out car blazes they have started - and where their parents hang the cross of Saint George out of bedroom windows to tell the "darkies" that this is a white area.

Another conspicuous difference is the ubiquitous presence of CCTV cameras. Perched on 10m poles, these were installed several years ago to control rising crime - drugs, prostitution, burglary and violence - on the estate. Cameras never lie, and their location reflects an uncomfortable truth. They begin at Callon, which indicates that crime here is of a much higher order than in neighbouring Fishwick, which is predominantly Muslim and south Asian.

The social demography will be familiar to most south Asian Muslims living in areas bordering working-class white and, for that matter, black estates. Politicians seem preoccupied with the problems Muslim communities present in terms of "social cohesion". In fact it is Britain's white and black underclass that is in more urgent need of integration into mainstream society and the common values it upholds.

Callon is one such example. Marked by high unemployment, low educational achievement, high incidence of single-parent and broken families, endemic crime, welfare dependency and a culture of hedonism, these estates are easy prey for the far-right and its diagnosis that "you're poor because they're better off". True, many Asian Muslim communities suffer from similar social conditions, but these are often mitigated by a family-centred culture that values self-help and educational achievement. For all the relatively poor showing of their communities in socioeconomic indices, they are nevertheless outperforming their white working-class peers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1830112,00.html

 

[mk12]

what a prick

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Back to the original post ...

I couldn't make it myself but the Lancashire Evening Post has carried a short report on Preston Respect Councillor Steven Brooks efforts to oppose another major employer closing down and the loss of 200 local jobs at a public meeting in Tulketh ward last night. I understand that speakers were to have included Respect Councillor Michael Lavalette and a trade union representative. Councillor Brooks will present today a petition to the Council signed by over 1,000 people opposing the planning application and the resulting job losses.

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1652062

 

[Das Uberdog]

Michael couldn't make it, but Steve spoke himself as did Elaine Abbott. We didn't muster a Trades Union activist, as the plant itself is un-unionised but that was the initial intention; what we did get was the support of all the local shop-owners, the owners of Banks and Derbyshire themselves, and a significant contingent of workers from the plant mixed with local residents. The meeting wasn't half as interesting as the canal one, but I think there's more potential for intra-community development and organisation in the long run. There's certainly a strong sense of distaste amongst the local residents about the closure of the plant which has been offering apprenticeships and skilled work to local residents for such a long time, and the emphasis of the meeting was very much to try and get not only the workers but also the people from the surrounding area involved in campaigning themselves.

 

[Ryoma]

Funnily enough, there has not been a peep out of the Respekites about this.

What do you expect the Left to say about this sort of thing?
The system is designed to set working class people against each other - while we are busy knocking two kinds of shit out of each other we leave the people at the top to rule over us. Racial Ghettoisation has been workling in America for decades and it's happening in Britain now (New Labour are transfixed by the States - everything from economic to social policy will land up her eventually). It should be of no surprise that minorities fall in line with the prevalling mood and seek to counter White racism with racism of their own. That's no to accept it, just understand where it comes from.