Respect hits new low

[audiotech]

so respect do something decent (didn't understand that stupid first post, can i have a link)

doesn't alter the fact they have been making cunts of themselves since day one

It's a parody and unbeknown to you you're part of the subject matter. What an irony.

Nice first post since you've reappeared from your ban. Learnt anything?

 

[kakuma]

It's a parody and unbeknown to you you're part of the subject matter. What an irony.

Nice first post since you've reappeared from your ban. Learnt anything?

i understand that it was a parody i just couldn't be bothered to work out what they did under all the wit....

so they have stuck up for the working class in one case, but there is a reason they are such a pariah

and i never learn owt cos i already know everything i need to

 

[TonkaToy]

where did I say that it isn't the white working class that supports them? my point was that there can't exactly be a significant number of them that give that much of a shit about the BNP - otherwise they wouldn't be in such debt, no?

Depends what you call a significant number. In percentage terms they are getting fuck all of the vote in most places - but it would be very foolish to try and link support to a bank balance. When the Conservatives were last voted into power, they about 2 million overdrawn.

 

[dennisr]

actually thye person you just insulted used to go to your public meetings in the early 90's - its a testament to your sectarianism <anyone who disagrees with you or mildly takes the piss is a twat> that they decided to join us

no you mean you??? (have you adopted that talking in the third person approach)
funnily enough i used to go to SWP meetings - so what - I found many of the people very earnest, a bit posh and shouty but the key thing was thier politics.

You continue in the same tradition of replacing a genuine political viewpoint/difference with some 'tribal' style affiliation to your pathetic wee organisation over others. Derailing arguements, trite rote learnt and superficial comments; petty, snidy innuendo and abuse. Your supposedly political interventions consist entirely of abuse and very limited 'humour'. Have you ever heard me resort to anything less than careful political crit of respect or any other of the lame fronts you cheer lead you daft c**t?

The funny thing, on this and many other bulletin boards i go on, is that i can argue and disagree and discuss and agree with people from countless different viewpoints - all except most members (with a couple of honourable exceptions...) of one particular organisation who come across as the sort of arrogant wankers who would get a kickin in real life in a real workplace. And they do not just come across as that to me or my organisation. I have never seen such a hated group of people. Guess what organisation that is nwnm? - now fuck off back to whatever hopeless, shitty little valley you come from pal and stop wasting your time deluding yourself you are in anyway engaging with anyone else. At one time I would have attempted to engage with you - unfortunatly you proved yourself to be another arrogant SWP jackass many moons ago.

I'm glad you made the choice you did, given the liability you are.

 

[TAE]

It's obviously part of a fiendish plot to disorient people ...

Clearly.

 

[nwnm]

no you mean you??? (have you adopted that talking in the third person approach)
QUOTE]

No, I mean osterberg - actually following a discussion <i.e. in order> a little intelectually challenging for you then?

 

[nwnm]

one particular organisation who come across as the sort of arrogant wankers who would get a kickin in real life in a real workplaceQUOTE]


I know - must be a hard life in the SP

 

[nwnm]

well there's calling osterberg a twat on this thread - and thats without really looking

 

[nwnm]

dennisr - you are Sooo easy to wind up

 

[dennisr]

dennisr - you are Sooo easy to wind up

Glad that makes you happy

the lack of individual character between the various wonderful welsh swp posters on this website makes it hard to seperate one of you wankers from the other. I really do not wish to engage with any of you fuckwits - but the offer to 'meet up' is open to all of you whenever you visit london. you, udo, osterberg - i'd love the opportunity to see what sort of fecks you are face to face

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Someone asked for links:

http://www.prestonrespect.org/html/canal_link.html

http://www.prestonrespect.org/html/save_banks___derbyshire.html

http://www.prestonrespect.org/html/middle_east_peace_vigil.html

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1632722

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1640204

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1632670

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1619093

And of course (just for balance), the other side:
http://www.winckleysquare.org.uk/press_notices/post33.html

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Some of dennisr's comments on this thread are sailing close to the wind as regards making physical threats to other posters.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

The disease seems to have spread - now they are organising demonstrations as well as public meetings against developers ....
http://macuaid.blogspot.com/2006/07/respect-takes-on-property-developers.html

 

[jmuk]

FAO Fisher Gate and other Respect members / fans.

Undoubtedly some branches of Respect are making genuine attempts to engage with working class people of all backgrounds. I hear that in East London their campaign was more focused on housing that Iraq.

However, in my opinion there are still several reasons for concern.

1. Respect is still viewed, in East London at least, as representing the Bengali Muslim community rather than working class people generally. No white candidate has been elected so far. Friends who canvassed in Tower Hamlets and Newham said they were openly and repeatedly abused as "Paki lovers" by local white people. Other white people just looked away. For a party with an MP in the area to attract such hostility from one section of the community should be a cause for concern.

2. Respect as a national organisation still focus to a large extent on issues around the war, civil liberties, Palestine... in other words issues with a natural appeal to some Muslim people and white middle class liberals. If Respect moves towards a more markedly pro-working class agenda, they risk losing the support of white middle class liberals (and, for that matter, middle class Muslims). The solution at the moment appears to be to concentrate on the war etc at national level and on local issues at a local level. How sustainable is this?

3. Why aren't Respect addressing working class concerns about crime and anti-social behaviour? This could be a by-product of their middle-class membership base, but it could prove to be a real downfall in the long-term.

Basically, its not enough for Respect to show they want to represent working class people - do they have the principles, process and strategy to do so?

 

[junius]

Interesting to see if and how Preston's Popular Front deal with the following:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5205916.stm

 

[urbanrevolt]

absolutely disgusting and if it was a racist attack (seems almost certain but don't want to rush in) it underlines the need for organised self-defence by black communties which the whole labour movement should support.

respect may sometimes engage with working class politics but it is populist and cross class because accomodations are made with the petit-bourgeois leaders of the Asian community- business people and clergy etc.

To mobilise Asian workers and youth is a good thing and if Respect was run democratically then it could be worth supporting even if Imams won particualr debates- but polcy is all too often decided ad hoc by the main particiants in the coalition ignoring Respect conference and even there the SWP instructs its members to follow the prejudices of the petit-bourgeois leaders.

A shame really because racism and Islamophobia are really burning issues in Britain today- the other day a young Asian worker said that she genuinely felt the long term safety and secirity of Muslims is under threat, saying "There is no future for Muslims in this country"

Our imperialist bourgeois are using racism and 'the war on terro' to whip up hatred against a whole section of the working class. We deserve better than respect to counter this. I would however encourage workers to attend Respect trade union conference in Novemeber and begin to organise working class solidarity and support to communities under attack

 

[Gamine Salter]

absolutely disgusting and if it was a racist attack (seems almost certain but don't want to rush in) it underlines the need for organised self-defence by black communties which the whole labour movement should support.

respect may sometimes engage with working class politics but it is populist and cross class because accomodations are made with the petit-bourgeois leaders of the Asian community- business people and clergy etc.

To mobilise Asian workers and youth is a good thing and if Respect was run democratically then it could be worth supporting even if Imams won particualr debates- but polcy is all too often decided ad hoc by the main particiants in the coalition ignoring Respect conference and even there the SWP instructs its members to follow the prejudices of the petit-bourgeois leaders.

A shame really because racism and Islamophobia are really burning issues in Britain today- the other day a young Asian worker said that she genuinely felt the long term safety and secirity of Muslims is under threat, saying "There is no future for Muslims in this country"

Our imperialist bourgeois are using racism and 'the war on terro' to whip up hatred against a whole section of the working class. We deserve better than respect to counter this. I would however encourage workers to attend Respect trade union conference in Novemeber and begin to organise working class solidarity and support to communities under attack

Hold a mo ,how do you know it was a racist attack ,and do they want someone like you to defend them.

 

[JHE]

absolutely disgusting and if it was a racist attack (seems almost certain but don't want to rush in) it underlines the need for organised self-defence by black communties which the whole labour movement should support.

Thanks for the line - but let me just check that I understand it properly.

There was a large brawl between a group of white lads and a group of Asian lads. The antagonists were armed with knives and bottles among other things. One lad died - on this particular occasion, an Asian lad.

The white delinquents are racist scum. The Asian delinquents are heroic anti-racists defending themselves from the dirty English kuffars. We need more violent Asians (who in 70s right-on-ese count as 'black') and the labour movement should heap praise on them.

Have I got that right?

 

[Gamine Salter]

Thanks for the line - but let me just check that I understand it properly.

There was a large brawl between a group of white lads and a group of Asian lads. The antagonists were armed with knives and bottles among other things. One lad died - on this particular occasion, an Asian lad.

The white delinquents are racist scum. The Asian delinquents are heroic anti-racists defending themselves from the dirty English kuffars. We need more violent Asians (who in 70s right-on-ese count as 'black') and the labour movement should heap praise on them.

Have I got that right?

More or less ,apply the same logic to every scenario no matter what.

 

[JimPage]

how'd the BNP managed to get in over £52,000 worth of debt last year with all those WWC supporting them eh?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5191236.stm

(Respect made a surplus of £35,000)

much worse than that for bnp - is that their membership declined in 2005 from 7,900 to just over 6,000- the BBC got the figures wrong

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Thanks for the line - but let me just check that I understand it properly.

There was a large brawl between a group of white lads and a group of Asian lads. The antagonists were armed with knives and bottles among other things. One lad died - on this particular occasion, an Asian lad.

The white delinquents are racist scum. The Asian delinquents are heroic anti-racists defending themselves from the dirty English kuffars. We need more violent Asians (who in 70s right-on-ese count as 'black') and the labour movement should heap praise on them.

Have I got that right?

The police have characterised this as a racist murder.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5207426.stm
Two people have been arrested on suspicion of murder; it has not been stated whether they are white, but all the talk from the police points that way.

There is no evidence to suggest that Shezan Umarji , the young asian who was murdered, was involved in any 'brawl'. He lived two streets away and appears to have been in the "wrong place at the wrong time" according to an interview with the senior police officer on today's Radio Lancashire. He was a successful and bright student who went to a top local school leaving with a clutch of A* and A grade GCSEs, did A levels at a local sixth form college and was studying for a degree at the nearby university.
http://www.lep.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1647756



Respect Councillor Michael Lavalette has welcomed the characterisation of the murder as racist. The local community are devastated.

From the main story in this evening's Lancashire Evening Post:

Town centre ward Respect councillor Michael Lavalette said: "It is appropriate that police have labelled this for what it is rather than sweep it under the carpet.

"We have to root out racism and build links between the white and Asian communities in Preston."
http://www.lep.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1647931

 

[belboid]

how the fuck does Lavalette know?

Was he there?

 

[cutandsplice]

There is no evidence to suggest that Shezan Umarji , the young asian who was murdered, was involved in any 'brawl'. He lived two streets away and appears to have been in the "wrong place at the wrong time" according to an interview with the senior police officer on today's Radio Lancashire. He was a successful and bright student who went to a top local school leaving with a clutch of A* and A grade GCSEs, did A levels at a local sixth form college and was studying for a degree at the nearby university.

And why is this relevant to whether or not it was a racist murder? Are you suggesting that only 'good' people get A levels or what?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

And why is this relevant to whether or not it was a racist murder? Are you suggesting that only 'good' people get A levels or what?

The original post suggested this was just two gangs of hooligans. There could have been the suggestion that it was a battle over drugs dealing territory or similar. There is no evidence to link this incident with the drugs gangs, both white and asian, that do operate on the fringes of low life in Preston. The background of the murder victim as a studious and hardworking local person with a high potential, makes it less likely he was from the criminal fraternity. The police are stressing this themselves and I am merely drawing attention to it. The police have been very quick to draw attention to the probable racist nature of the murder - without in any way relying on the police, this is clearly an important development.

 

[belboid]

the report I read said that the police had said this was racial because of language used during the fighting. That would obviously imply that some of the attackers were racist to some extent (how much we dont know, sadly in an attack it is quite likely that people will say almost anything to wind up the 'enemy'), but that is not the same as saying that the attack was explicitly motivated by racism - which is surely what 'racist attack' actually means.

 

[cutandsplice]

The original post suggested this was just two gangs of hooligans. There could have been the suggestion that it was a battle over drugs dealing territory or similar. There is no evidence to link this incident with the drugs gangs, both white and asian, that do operate on the fringes of low life in Preston. The background of the murder victim as a studious and hardworking local person with a high potential, makes it less likely he was from the criminal fraternity. The police are stressing this themselves and I am merely drawing attention to it. The police have been very quick to draw attention to the probable racist nature of the murder - without in any way relying on the police, this is clearly an important development.

So only people who are from the 'criminal fraternity' get involved in fights? Do you still claim to be some sort of socialist? That sentence reads like something written by polly toynbee.

 

[articul8]

So only people who are from the 'criminal fraternity' get involved in fights? Do you still claim to be some sort of socialist? That sentence reads like something written by polly toynbee.

The police are hardly consistent about it themselves:

Det Supt Graham Gardner, who is leading the investigation, said: "There was an amount of racist abuse used at the time of the attack, but it is not clear who said it or who it was directed at.

"The matter has now been declared as a racist murder.

"I am open-minded about whether racist abuse caused the fight.

What the hell does that mean? Why rush to assume it's a 'racist murder' if racism wasn't definately the cause of the fight, and you've no idea who said what to whom

 

[blackadder]

The police have characterised this as a racist murder.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5207426.stm
Two people have been arrested on suspicion of murder; it has not been stated whether they are white, but all the talk from the police points that way.

There are more than two people arrested, it is at least four. Are you in regular conversation with the police on this matter?

The local residents have said that racist comments were used during the fight, they also said the larger group was the asian group.

I was also told, even before it came out in the media (a tiny wincy piece), that a well known death and dumb man from the area was attacked (note, not in the brawl) for trying to protect his son being beaten upon. His son, I was told, then went in to his house and then returned to aid his father. The son is one of the detainees on suspicion of murder, apparently.

There is no evidence to suggest that Shezan Umarji , the young asian who was murdered, was involved in any 'brawl'. He lived two streets away and appears to have been in the "wrong place at the wrong time" according to an interview with the senior police officer on today's Radio Lancashire.

That is contrary to what I've heard from the residents of the Callon Estate, but lets not let any truths get swept under the carpet, eh?

He was a successful and bright student who went to a top local school leaving with a clutch of A* and A grade GCSEs, did A levels at a local sixth form college and was studying for a degree at the nearby university.
http://www.lep.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=73&ArticleID=1647756

That, Mr Gate is totally irrelevant at this stage, you haven't quoted that from the LEP article, they are your own words. Why did you feel the need to tell us how academically brilliant Mr Shezan Umarji was? I mean, it wouldn't have made any difference if he was a delinquent drop out, the poor man is still dead. But I suspect if he was a drop out, you wouldn't have told us so.

Edited to add... I read that he had infact left university as it wasn't for him. (not that that makes a blind bit of difference)

Respect Councillor Michael Lavalette has welcomed the characterisation of the murder as racist. The local community are devastated.



From the main story in this evening's Lancashire Evening Post:

I'm devastated too, I'm devastated that some of the redtops have reported my town of being the country's race hate capital. It's not so and the Callon usually is the prime example why this is not so.

If the whole chain of events turn out to be race prejudice related, and not just two groups who happen to be of different races, who clashed. Then I too
will welcome the police's rapid characterisation of the murder.

 

[JHE]

There is no evidence to suggest that Shezan Umarji , the young asian who was murdered, was involved in any 'brawl'.

Er... except that he died in the middle of it.

 

[mutley]

So why would the police say it was racist? The BNP have an explanation, that the old bill are all part of a pseudo-marxist multiculturalist conspiracy to undermine Blighty. There's probably some trolling wankers that agree...

Or maybe Plod, having looked at the evidence, decided that was the explanation.

A lot of people seem desperate to show that it wasn't. I don't see why..