Respect does not have a long-term future - Alan Thornett

[Patty]

RESPECT was never anything more than a narrow comunalist party and as such will never be able to bring together a coherant working class and progressive political force.
Firstly the people involved and in charge of the out fit are totally repellant to most working class people, beyond a few muslims who I suspect are following their leaders and the odd working class leftie/trade unionist.
RESPECT come across as another bunch middle class pc do gooders to most white working class people. Fair enough issues effecting muslims need to be adressed but they need to be married to issues facing all working class people.
Then there is their weekness on womens and gender issues. There are some socially conservative muslim elements who are hostile to femenist ideas and to gay people.
The SWP seem to ignore this, the SWPers that I have spoke to about it either play it down or make that point that many w/c people have such attitudes and that they need to be adressed through the course of political colaberation. But when your collaberating with "community leaders" who have such views it's a differnet matter altogether.
I wont try to predict how long it will last or second guess membership number (perhaps if respect were open and honest we wouldn't need to but thats not the swp's style) but in the scheeme of things they wont make a damn bit of differnce, it will become another passing phase in the swp's cynical history of recruitment and poplarism at at any cost to principles

 

[mutley]

I wouldn't get too excited about the membership figures. There has been absolutely no energy put into getting people to renew, except sending them a form. There are ppl in Brum who are absoluteley central to respect who haven't got round to sending off their national membership money.

Not that I'm saying that's exactly a satisfactory state of affairs...but reports of our imminent death are, again, greatly exaggerated

 

[ska invita]

This problem also comes out of the SWP’s continued opposition to building Respect as a party – a position they strongly share with George Galloway.

What is this slighlty cryptic dig at GG here? What's he done this time?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

What is this slighlty cryptic dig at GG here? What's he done this time?

It's not cryptic at all - Thornett is opposing both GG and the SWP. GG and SWP for different reasons share the same hostility to a party type structure. GG is opposed because he would have to become more accountable, SWP are opposed because they think they are THE Party. Both want Respect to remain a coalition of semi-autonomous components. (Ironically this was also the position of the SP when they walked out of the Socialist Alliance in protest against the 'centralism' of the SWP.)

The Fourth International have a different conception and support the building of broad anti-capitalist parties that are multi-tendency. See the replies to the SWP's Callinicos from Murray Smith and Thornett at:
http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?rubrique14

 

[grogwilton]

i campaign for Respect and the SWP, but im not signed up to either, let alone subs. i once paid subs to the SWP, but they stopped getting paid when my bank account emptied, and i never renewed them.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I wouldn't get too excited about the membership figures. There has been absolutely no energy put into getting people to renew, except sending them a form. There are ppl in Brum who are absoluteley central to respect who haven't got round to sending off their national membership money.

Not that I'm saying that's exactly a satisfactory state of affairs...but reports of our imminent death are, again, greatly exaggerated

Definite symptoms of fiddling while rome burns and head in the sand here.

If you don't have a proper membership system how are members supposed to democratically determine the direction of the organisation? So of course within Respect at the moment that doesn't happen - most members who stay in go along passively with the direction determined by the SWP. There is little in the way of effective accountability or functioning branch structures. There is currently few ways anyone can challenge any issues within the organisation properly, and if there are any major disagreements it gets nasty and messy, as happened in Tower Hamlets.

Try to think about the future, comrade, not just mobilising for the next demo.

 

[mutley]

i campaign for Respect and the SWP, but im not signed up to either, let alone subs. i once paid subs to the SWP, but they stopped getting paid when my bank account emptied, and i never renewed them.

You have to put money in bank accounts occasionally... just a thought..

 

[articul8]

if there are any major disagreements it gets nasty and messy, as happened in Tower Hamlets.

remind us what happened there?

 

[FruitandNut]

The problem is that 'Respect', much like all the other political parties, has got hijacked by some iffy interest groups and individuals, that are using it 'wolf in sheeps' clothing' fashion.

ps. What is it that the Bible and the Qu'ran say about '....the greatest/best of decievers'?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

remind us what happened there?

Mayhem. Liam Macuaid's take is here.
http://macuaid.blogspot.com/2006/07/funny-sort-of-challenge.html#links
While the jaundiced Weekly W*nker view is here:
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/632/respect.htm

 

[treelover]

Wouldn't support them in a month of Sundays, but have to say some of the following makes a lot of sense and is quite refreshing

A lesson in Stalinism
Members of the Socialist Workers Party tried to throw CPGB students out of a public meeting. Dave Isaacson reports

In the past week, as well as continuing to sign people up at various freshers fairs, Communist Students groups have started to hold meetings on university campuses, in addition to intervening in left student politics.

Mark Fischer, national organiser of the CPGB, has begun to address a series of Communist Students meetings on the topic of ‘What’s wrong with the left?’ This is a particularly pertinent question for students who turn up to freshers fairs to find a myriad of socialist groups attempting to win their allegiance, and all claiming that they are the only true heirs of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky.

Why is the left so divided, and how can this be overcome? Is it possible for revolutionary parties to have a democratic internal culture? What forms can we use to guard against the bureaucratisation of working class organisations? These are among the questions comrade Fischer is answering. At Sheffield University comrades were particularly pleased with the turnout for their meeting. Over 20 came along - as many as, if not more than, the other left groups like the Socialist Worker Student Society (SWSS) and the Socialist Party’s Socialist Students get to their meetings.

Comrade Fischer has been arguing that the left needs to undergo a cultural revolution. Most groups on the left, at best, pay lip service to notions of democracy inside their organisations. In fact they operate as bureaucratic centralist sects - not the parties they often claim to be. It is therefore no wonder that the left groups are generally unappealing as far as the mass of the working class and students are concerned.

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/643/students.htm

 

[grogwilton]

You have to put money in bank accounts occasionally... just a thought..

honestly Mutley i cant afford to pay subs and havent been able to for a while, but i still see the SWP and Respect as the best of a bad bunch on the left- thats why im active in both.

 

[treelover]

As the pathetic divisive and communalist Respect party collapses, the BNP goes from strength to strength, it would be laughable if it wasn't so worrying.

Loughborough Shelthorope Ward- Thursday 5th October
>
> Lab 643
> BNP 478 (28.8%)
> Con 386
> Lib 155
>
> Huge vote in town never fought before at ward level (although have
> fought at county council level- polling 4%)
>

 

[mk12]

the best of a bad bunch on the left- thats why im active in both.

a ringing endorsement of both i'm sure people will agree.

 

[BarryB]

As the pathetic divisive and communalist Respect party collapses, the BNP goes from strength to strength, it would be laughable if it wasn't so worrying.

Loughborough Shelthorope Ward- Thursday 5th October

Lab 643
BNP 478 (28.8%)
Con 386
Lib 155

Huge vote in town never fought before at ward level (although have
fought at county council level- polling 4%)

According to a Socialist Party member on the UKLN the BNP vote represented a "failure" for them!

BarryB

 

[grogwilton]

a ringing endorsement of both i'm sure people will agree.

well i am critical of both, but if i wasnt in an organisation, my political activity would be limited to me chatting to people down my local, and my mates and people at work (i do all of these anyway). that or working my bollocks off starting a whole new organisation on my own in my area.

mk12, are you politicaly active? what do you do in your community to advance the cause of progressive politics?

 

[JimPage]

To me, in most parts of england, Respect dont even seem to be trying to organise as an electoral force. I dont buy the idea that simply they are are new- as they are a continuum of the Socialist Alliance which has bene fighting elections since the GLA Elections of 2000

While it makes good sense to build in a small number of wards- and get elected in them- rather than standing hundreds of paper canddiates- by failing to expand into all areas the SWP operates in, they leave the filed of elecotal politics open to the BNP, for example. Take last, week, in Loughborough- where the BNP polled 28% on a working class estate in town. Loughborough is crammed with student SWP types, but not a single left candidate came forward? Why not?

And this criticism goes for the SP and any other English Left group engaged in electoral politics

Time is not on the side of the left