Respect After Galloway

[rebel warrior]

This is absloute tripe. Labour is very keen to win the Muslim vote. Its an increasing % of the population especially in innner city areas. For instance I can assure you that in Hackney the last thing we would do is ignore the Muslim electorate.

BarryB

Oh, thats a relief. Labour will not 'ignore the Muslim electorate'. However, you will continue to ignore them and their feelings outside of elections when there are wars/crusades to be waged in the Middle East etc.

Tony Blair and Home Secretary Charles Clarke have repeatedly praised Muslim associations for their moderation since the terror attacks on London last July. But they have grown increasingly impatient over the failure of these self-appointed figures to offer real leadership to Muslims...the source said: "This idea of community leadership is a complete nonsense. The Muslim Council of Britain purports to represent the Muslim community but what have they actually done to show leadership since 9/11? on all the major issues – on the 7/7 terror attacks, on the cartoon row they have hid behind the Home Office. "It is now taken as read by the Government that these self-appointed groups really don't have any power or influence over the Muslim populations. They got what they wanted from the Government but there was no real delivery in return. Now it is clear that they can't deliver."

What can't they 'deliver' ? - oh yeah, huge block votes for Labour like they did in the past.

 

[rebel warrior]

Overly crude analysis. New Labour, have nothing against Muslims as such, if they did, why go to such lengths to try to get the religious hatred bill through. the ruling class, as a class, be it represented by new labour or anyone else dont engage in irrational hatreds. Blair has nothing against Muslims in general, indeed he is quite prepared to go out of his way to court people like Sacranie and the MCB, when necessary and to facilitate the introduction of faith based schools. The ruling class only generally oppose those sections of the muslim community who oppose their class interests, which in the current climate means principally Blairite international policies. What principally, the ruling class are about is continuing the old colonial policy of divide and rule transferred into Britain, a policy that the current promotion of 'multiculturalism. makes too easy.

No, what they have been trying to do is sign Muslim leaders up to the 'war on terror'. To do this they have to offer something in return - hence the Religious Hatred Bill - which they couldn't even be bothered to pass. That is how much New Labour 'care' about Muslims.

Now, as the Express article shows they have basically given up on even the most mainstream and moderate of Muslim leaders - like the MCB. Their strategy of 'divide and rule' is starting to unravel.

 

[kakuma]

respect are disgusiting useless fucking cunts

ninjyB

 

[KeyboardJockey]

respect are disgusiting useless fucking cunts

ninjyB

No no ninjaboy

Respect are disgusting, amoral, stupid, racist, communitarian usless fucking cunts.

 

[rebel warrior]

respect are disgusiting useless fucking cunts

ninjyB

And your preferred political alternative is?

 

[kakuma]

And your preferred political alternative is?

Michael Barrymoore

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Michael Barrymoore

I can just imagine the election slogan

'awight not meow'

 

[kakuma]

he could show us how the economy is doing with the strike it lucky board

"ooh, hot spot"

 

[KeyboardJockey]

he could show us how the economy is doing with the strike it lucky board

"ooh, hot spot"

With the way our educational system is rapidly plunging towards US levels of quality that might be the only way that such information could be conveyed.

 

[kakuma]

someone could probly make an excellent analogy for capitalism out of the strike it lucky game

 

[kakuma]

Muslim protestors just went on a mental killing spree in Nigeria murdering 16 people cos they were christians, including some in a christian church



i wonder what respects comment will be on it

 

[DexterTCN]

What are your comments on it?

Are you suggesting that Respect are pro-murder?

 

[kakuma]

i think religion is shite

and respect are just chasing votes

both are obscene

 

[KeyboardJockey]

i think religion is shite

and respect are just chasing votes

both are obscene

I agree and disagree with you there. Although I have a faith of my own I wouldn't dream of evangalising as I feel that matters of faith are a personal thing. Respect are chasing votes on a communitarian basis. We have spend over 400 odd years either killing each other or oppressing each other on the grounds of faith and it worries me to see communitiarian parties like Respect/BNP using religion as a voter grabbing tool.

Not everything is a matter of black and white some people of faith such as the Andelusian Muslims and the Christian Socialists have done great works and I recognise the place of religionists in banning the transatlantic slave trade etc but in the 21st Century we in Western Europe have to layour cards on the table and say that faith is important for some but it must not be allowed to wield undue influence.

There are obscene aspects of faith and faith communities and we should be able to talk about it not have debate shut down by screaming 'antiChristian' or 'Islamophobic'.

If Respect want the mainland UK politics to look like Northern Ireland then they should say so. Respect are treading a dangerous path here.

 

[Wilf]

Muslim protestors just went on a mental killing spree in Nigeria murdering 16 people cos they were christians, including some in a christian church



i wonder what respects comment will be on it

Its usualy 'Victory to the Insurgency'.

 

[JHE]

This show will run and run

Reports of our death are greatly exagerrated..

Though May 4th will be make or break, I'll give u that..

It's interesting that an SWPer considers the possibility that the local elections could be 'break' for Respec', but I think you're mistaken. The local elections will be neither 'make' nor 'break' for Respec'. Social Worker will greet the results as a great success for the Respec' policy - but Respec' will remain a very minor political party.

The focus will be on the East End of London and maybe a handful of other places. Results elsewhere will largely be ignored in the assessment

Let's split up the possible outcomes in the East End into four.

1. Respec' gets a derisory vote. This would make it harder to claim success. Social Worker would still do so, but the members might not believe it. However, this outcome is very unlikely. Respec's vote in the East End will not be tiny.

2. Respec' wins many seats and takes over Tower Hamlets Council - as GG boasted it would - or becomes a major party on that particular council. I think this is also unlikely. Obviously, if it happened, Respec' would remain on the road, but it would remain insignificant in most of the country. (It'd also be interesting to see how Respec' ran the council, if they got the chance/responsibility.)

3. Respec' gets a decent vote but wins no seats. This would be enough to convince Respekers to continue. They would be a bit disappointed not to have won anything, but would reassure themselves that they have a growing base of support (whether or not it really were growing) and say that winning seats is not the most important thing.

4. Respec' wins a few seats. This would be greeted as a historic victory by Social Worker and Respekers would be much encouraged.

If I were betting, my money would be on possibilities 3 or 4.

The Respec' Show will run and run, though it won't be a national hit.

 

[Matt S]

My betting is on 4. If 2 (or even a '4+' scenario, where they win a lot of seats but not enough to take control) happens, then I will be very interested to see if their grouping (Bengali community figures + John Rees led SWP cllrs) could hold together for long.

Matt

 

[BarryB]

Oh, thats a relief. Labour will not 'ignore the Muslim electorate'. However, you will continue to ignore them and their feelings outside of elections when there are wars/crusades to be waged in the Middle East etc.

And where was the SWP when it came to defending the mainly Bosnian Muslims against Serbian nationalist aggression? IIRC the SWP did not lift a finger to help the Bosnians. If anything you sided with the Serbs. Whilst at least myself and others in Workers Aid for Bosnia helped organise relief convoys to go to Bosnia. So dont you and the opportunist SWP lecture me about defending Muslims.

BarryB

 

[rebel warrior]

And where was the SWP when it came to defending the mainly Bosnian Muslims against Serbian nationalist aggression? IIRC the SWP did not lift a finger to help the Bosnians. If anything you sided with the Serbs. Whilst at least myself and others in Workers Aid for Bosnia helped organise relief convoys to go to Bosnia. So dont you and the opportunist SWP lecture me about defending Muslims.

BarryB

Oh, so you sided with US/UK Imperialism over that one too did you? What a surprise.

 

[BarryB]

Oh, so you sided with US/UK Imperialism over that one too did you? What a surprise.

You have just proved my point. Rather than support the mainly muslim Bosnians you would rather have had them enslaved by the Serb nationalists. Not exactly a surprise. And what about Kosovo? And what do you think of the position of Socialist Resistance (your friends in Respect) concerning Bosnia and Kosovo? Perhaps the muslim supporters of Respect in Tower Hamlets and Newham need to be reminded of your views?

BarryB

 

[TremulousTetra]

You have just proved my point. Rather than support the mainly muslim Bosnians you would rather have had them enslaved by the Serb nationalists. Not exactly a surprise. And what about Kosovo? And what do you think of the position of Socialist Resistance (your friends in Respect) concerning Bosnia and Kosovo? Perhaps the muslim supporters of Respect in Tower Hamlets and Newham need to be reminded of your views?

BarryB

you kind of make our point for us against keyboard jockey. You highlight we do not take the side of a race or religious sect, we always take the side of the working class and the oppressed no matter what their race or religion. Thanks very much Barry.

Respect. ResistanceMP3

 

[rebel warrior]

you kind of make our point for us against keyboard jockey. You highlight we do not take the side of a race or religious sect, we always take the side of the working class and the oppressed no matter what their race or religion. Thanks very much Barry.

Respect. ResistanceMP3

Nice one RMP3.

 

[BarryB]

you kind of make our point for us against keyboard jockey. You highlight we do not take the side of a race or religious sect, we always take the side of the working class and the oppressed no matter what their race or religion. Thanks very much Barry.

Respect. ResistanceMP3

Are you really tryng to get us to believe that the Bosnian Muslims werent oppressed by the Serb nationalists! Wasant there a Bosnian working class? Your refusal to support the Bosnian Muslims led you to be on the same side as the Serbian nationalists. Youre complete opportunists.

BarryB

 

[Fullyplumped]

Oh, so you sided with US/UK Imperialism over that one too did you? What a surprise.

How on Earth is organising relief for people under attack from genocidal nationalist killers the same as siding with US/UK imperialism? I can understand you disapproving of the coalition's policy of intervention in that conflict. If you want to characterise it as imperialism, then fine, that's up to you. But why disapprove of relief efforts?

 

[Harold Hill]

For all the words on here it seems to many Repectos look at the British working class in terms of unionised workers and thats it.

 

[tollbar]

For all the words on here it seems to many Repectos look at the British working class in terms of unionised workers and thats it.

For all the words on here it seems to me that for the Respectoids, the "working class" means anyone who opposes US/UK imperialism. Anyone not actively involved in such opposition are objectively, part of the problem rather then the solution. The logical end of this line of thinking is the old maoist line that the working class of the imperialist countries have been bought off by the superprofits of imperialism.

 

[Fullyplumped]

For all the words on here it seems to me that for the Respectoids, the "working class" means anyone who opposes US/UK imperialism. Anyone not actively involved in such opposition are objectively, part of the problem rather then the solution. The logical end of this line of thinking is the old maoist line that the working class of the imperialist countries have been bought off by the superprofits of imperialism.

In other words, "vote for us you miserable imperialist lickspittles, but don't imagine you'll get a better bunk in the re-education camp."

 

[Wilf]

For all the words on here it seems to me that for the Respectoids, the "working class" means anyone who opposes US/UK imperialism. Anyone not actively involved in such opposition are objectively, part of the problem rather then the solution. The logical end of this line of thinking is the old maoist line that the working class of the imperialist countries have been bought off by the superprofits of imperialism.

Mind, at least by that logic they've solved an age old problem. Social scientists, social surveyors, town planners and census workers have all tried to answer the question: 'How big is the working class?'. Respect have now got a definitive answer. 2 million marched against the war in February 2002 - so the working class must be 2 million strong. Simple! Oh hang on, what about thge coach drivers who were having a sly smoke back on their vehicles...

 

[mutley]

respect are disgusiting useless fucking cunts

ninjyB

At least we can fucking spell.

Or is that some new verb you just invented.

Ninja turtle twat.

 

[mutley]

It's interesting that an SWPer considers the possibility that the local elections could be 'break' for Respec', but I think you're mistaken. The local elections will be neither 'make' nor 'break' for Respec'. Social Worker will greet the results as a great success for the Respec' policy - but Respec' will remain a very minor political party.

The focus will be on the East End of London and maybe a handful of other places. Results elsewhere will largely be ignored in the assessment

Let's split up the possible outcomes in the East End into four.

1. Respec' gets a derisory vote. This would make it harder to claim success. Social Worker would still do so, but the members might not believe it. However, this outcome is very unlikely. Respec's vote in the East End will not be tiny.

2. Respec' wins many seats and takes over Tower Hamlets Council - as GG boasted it would - or becomes a major party on that particular council. I think this is also unlikely. Obviously, if it happened, Respec' would remain on the road, but it would remain insignificant in most of the country. (It'd also be interesting to see how Respec' ran the council, if they got the chance/responsibility.)

3. Respec' gets a decent vote but wins no seats. This would be enough to convince Respekers to continue. They would be a bit disappointed not to have won anything, but would reassure themselves that they have a growing base of support (whether or not it really were growing) and say that winning seats is not the most important thing.

4. Respec' wins a few seats. This would be greeted as a historic victory by Social Worker and Respekers would be much encouraged.

If I were betting, my money would be on possibilities 3 or 4.

The Respec' Show will run and run, though it won't be a national hit.

Between 2 and 4.. (there's no logic to the numbering system.)

Anyway, a few seats in at least two geographical areas, + an mp, could be worse.

More than a couple of areas looks even better..

But what we really need, and i don't have the expertise, is a sweepstake/vote type thingy, so we can all place our bets, put our money where our mouths are, on the subject of 'how many respect councillors will there be on May 5th..?'