resistance and activism?

[hibee]

What kind of 'playful and fun' activities are these?

Dunno, but I think they involve wearing a bandana

 

[sihhi]

The campaign against genetically modified crops is a good example. Although this can be viewed as a victory through certain lenses, our activity only helped revitalise old markets for capitalism (such as organic food) and strengthened party politics (with many people sucked into the green party machine of the backs of our activity.)

What do YOU think about the anti-GM campaign out of interest?

 

[Thora_v1]

What do YOU think about the anti-GM campaign out of interest?

Isn't the bit you quoted stating what he thinks of it?

 

[sihhi]

Isn't the bit you quoted stating what he thinks of it?

Well yeah-- my brain is just not functioning today at this time of day.

 

[blamblam]

Dunno, but I think they involve wearing a bandana

?

 

[Bristly Pioneer]

I remember being on an action at the last DSEi, around a dozen of us had suited up and got onto the DLR and buses travelling to DSEi with the arms dealers. Attempting to strike up conversation we would ask polite questions to break the ice "are you buying or selling today?" etc. After a while and once conversations had moved on a bit, they would get a bit harder.

"so what kind of weapons are you into, the long distance village busting types, or up close and personal maiming ones?"

Before long several people on board were denying they were going to the arms fair at all. Especially once we had opened our cases to try and sell them some prosthetic limbs ("arms" boom boom). Naturally by this point the whole carriage or bus was listening in and our big strong arms dealers had become very sheepish. (being stuck in a room with no police to protect them).

We would finally pull up at ExCeL and announce that we were going to have a round of applause for anyone getting off for the arms fair. The whole carriage erupted, with red faced arms dealers walking through the crowds (after having denied they were going to the fair). Mums and kids laughing and slapping them on the back as they did the walk of shame.

Excellent fun, wound up the dealers no end and made everyone on the bus feel great. May not have started the revolution, but was certainly a step in the right direction.

 

[Pickman's model]

What kind of 'playful and fun' activities are these?

And at what rate do working class people get drawn into the anarchist 'milieu' because of them?

i believe the anarchist federation keeps the statisticks you seek. how the fucking fuck do you think anyone knows how many people drift into and out of and back into the anarchist scene? how many people drift about the iwca? do they keep files on everyone who comes to their socials or occasionally looks at their website?

the anarchist movement in this country is growing, albeit slowly, as a glance at the main anarchist event of the year, the anarchist bookfair, shows. from conway hall it has moved over the last several years through a series of increasingly large venues to the whatsit centre on holloway road this year. according to press reports, there are thousands upon thousands of wombles in the uk, and that's not counting the rest of the anarchist movement.

as for play & fun, examples are given on this thread and throughout p&p. find them yrself, you lazy sod.

 

[Pickman's model]

Examples si'l vous plait.

well, there were 1,500 people at the ruc's launch meeting, all of whom were presumably already members or joined shortly after. at the last ruc conference, 2,800 members were represented. in between times, we were told that the ruc were gaining 30 or 300 members a week, some ridiculous number anyway. the numbers simply don't add up, unless many hundreds left the ruc, forced out like flimsier or out of a growing horrified realisation that the ruc were as wanky an organisation as its namesake. although it will be interesting to see just how many people are represented at this year's ruc fiesta, i would be surprised if it were much above 3,000. the campaign to get a million pounds for last year's euro elections fell flat and - again - i feel that the accounts which finally emerge from the ruc's "little castlereagh" in brick lane will show a party in the doldrums rather than a party on the up & up.

 

[dirtycrustie]

I know you asked that at the beginning - I was just wondering if you had any idea of what activity would be positive.

I didn’t really want to get into definitions as I saw them as this thread could easily be derailed into people defending their positions or identities in relation to what they perceive as unfair judgement. But perhaps it would be easier to lay my cards on the Urban 75 table.
I am opposed to the cult of activism, which I see as another identity that one can buy under capitalism. A role that seems to be increasingly occupied by white men and women between the end of school and the beginning of work or family life. I am opposed to the specialisation of revolutionary practice in the hands of self-proclaimed activists or militants. As conscious pro-revolutionaries we must attempt to overcome, instead of reinforce, the separation between us and the dispossessed who are not at this moment consciously revolutionary. Most activists see themselves as separate from those whose interests they claim to represent.

I am also reject dialectics…but what does that mean…The rejection of dialectics is initially a very basic position: 1) the character of the ruling class defines the character of the opposition and 2) that opposition must of necessity engage with reality as described by the ruling class..Then 3) the subsequent modifications to the power of the ruling class and thus to reality are wholly determined by the ruling class. Not a brilliant exit strategy, yet one, I believe most in the radical milieu continue to pursue. I am for the break…but I don’t know what this is. In answer to your question thora I don’t think I have any solutions.

 

[blamblam]

Pickmans I think you're putting your head in the sand here, trying to avoid the unhappy fact that we are fucked.

i believe the anarchist federation keeps the statisticks you seek. how the fucking fuck do you think anyone knows how many people drift into and out of and back into the anarchist scene?

I'm sure you can estimate. And we all know it's not a lot. What in london maybe 40-50 in/out every year.

the anarchist movement in this country is growing, albeit slowly

Even if that were true - it's still a totally self-referencial activist sub-scene, divorced from society.

according to press reports, there are thousands upon thousands of wombles in the uk

Yeah but you know they're lies. Like the one saying Class War had 300 members. Why are you trying to present a rosier picture than the reality? Lying to ourselves helps no one.

 

[sihhi]

I'm sure you can estimate. And we all know it's not a lot. What in london maybe 40-50 in/out every year

Is that forty enter and forty leave every year?

What reasons do people give for leaving?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

A role that seems to be increasingly occupied by white men and women between the end of school and the beginning of work or family life.

I've seen a fair amount of that.

 

[Thora_v1]

I am also reject dialectics…but what does that mean…The rejection of dialectics is initially a very basic position: 1) the character of the ruling class defines the character of the opposition and 2) that opposition must of necessity engage with reality as described by the ruling class..Then 3) the subsequent modifications to the power of the ruling class and thus to reality are wholly determined by the ruling class. Not a brilliant exit strategy, yet one, I believe most in the radical milieu continue to pursue. I am for the break…but I don’t know what this is. In answer to your question thora I don’t think I have any solutions.

I'm not sure I completely get what you're saying here - that because our resistance is defined by what we're resisting, we can't escape it?

 

[dirtycrustie]

the anarchist movement in this country is growing, albeit slowly, as a glance at the main anarchist event of the year, the anarchist bookfair, shows. from conway hall it has moved over the last several years through a series of increasingly large venues to the whatsit centre on holloway road this year. according to press reports, there are thousands upon thousands of wombles in the uk, and that's not counting the rest of the anarchist movement.

I dont think attenence at the bookfair is an indication of the'movements' strength in fact I think it shows how fragile we truely are, and only goes to show the strength of capitalism. In so much as radical identities can be sold back to people...in this case books, t-shirts etc..

 

[blamblam]

Is that forty enter and forty leave every year?

What reasons do people give for leaving?

Lots of reasons I guess, I mean I've basically left the anarchist movement. Why? Cos it's a waste of time. Other people I've spoken to seem to be the same, apart from scenesters who got involved cos they thought it was "cool" and didn't give a shit about the ideas (you can tell them early on cos they say they don't like theory and "dead men with beards")

 

[Thora_v1]

I dont think attenence at the bookfair is an indication of the'movements' strength in fact I think it shows how fragile we truely are, and only goes to show the strength of capitalism. In so much as radical identities can be sold back to people...in this case books, t-shirts etc..

Ooh! I love the Class War merchandise!

 

[dirtycrustie]

I'm not sure I completely get what you're saying here - that because our resistance is defined by what we're resisting, we can't escape it?

In the framework we are operating inside thats what I think Im saying..

 

[LLETSA]

i believe the anarchist federation keeps the statisticks you seek. how the fucking fuck do you think anyone knows how many people drift into and out of and back into the anarchist scene? how many people drift about the iwca? do they keep files on everyone who comes to their socials or occasionally looks at their website?

the anarchist movement in this country is growing, albeit slowly, as a glance at the main anarchist event of the year, the anarchist bookfair, shows. from conway hall it has moved over the last several years through a series of increasingly large venues to the whatsit centre on holloway road this year. according to press reports, there are thousands upon thousands of wombles in the uk, and that's not counting the rest of the anarchist movement.

as for play & fun, examples are given on this thread and throughout p&p. find them yrself, you lazy sod.

Ask yourself something about the tone of your post. Jesus, talk about defensive. Can't help wondering why.

It was a reasonable enough question, and one that should concern yourself, as an anarchist, more than most.

Why mention the IWCA? I didn't.

If the Anarchist Bookfair is the main indicator of a growing anarchist movement then that says a lot, in actual fact. It says nothing, however, about the anarchist movement's ability to attract working class people, which is what I asked you about.

There might be 'thousands and thousands of Wombles in the UK' or there might not; that's the trouble: they're so difficult to count while they're underground, overground and wombling free. Anyway, I've heard that the whole shebang could go tits up when Uncle Bulgaria kicks it, which can't be that far off now. Rest assured, however, that I have never met a single working class person who has ever mentioned the Wombles (the ones you're on about). This would indicate that they've never even heard of them. Which press reports claim that there's thousands of them, by the way?

You are the one that said 'fun and play' is the way forward, and yet you can't give me a single example off the top of your head? Still, it must be one hell of a burden when you've got dozens and dozens of other threads to attend to in the cause of anarchy every single day.

 

[blamblam]

I dont think attenence at the bookfair is an indication of the'movements' strength in fact I think it shows how fragile we truely are, and only goes to show the strength of capitalism. In so much as radical identities can be sold back to people...in this case books, t-shirts etc..

Nah it's not capitalism recuperating, that's ridiculous. But the bookfair always looks like mostly people who dropped out in the 80s, and random people who are just interested. No "movement" to speak of.

 

[Thora_v1]

In the framework we are operating inside thats what I think Im saying..

If that's true then surely we can't do anything then - everything is recuperated? Or maybe all we can do is damage limitation stuff while we wait for the revolution...

 

[dirtycrustie]

Nah it's not capitalism recuperating, that's ridiculous. But the bookfair always looks like mostly people who dropped out in the 80s, and random people who are just interested. No "movement" to speak of.

how has the bookfair escaped the marketplace of capitalism???

 

[blamblam]

how has the bookfair escaped the marketplace of capitalism???

It hasn't, but to say anarchists selling books shows it's been recuperated is just ridiculous. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

 

[dirtycrustie]

how has the bookfair escaped the marketplace of capitalism???

not being a twat here...but that implies there is an outside.of capitalism..which i suspose is the point of this thread..to explore these ideas and identities further..

 

[dirtycrustie]

If that's true then surely we can't do anything then - everything is recuperated? Or maybe all we can do is damage limitation stuff while we wait for the revolution...

radical conservation as a justification for activism...mmm...maybe...

 

[Pickman's model]

Pickmans I think you're putting your head in the sand here, trying to avoid the unhappy fact that we are fucked.

is that from yr vantage point at work?

I'm sure you can estimate. And we all know it's not a lot. What in london maybe 40-50 in/out every year.

how'd you define who's in & who's out? there's always a load of people i've never seen before at the bookfair - there were a load at the g8 from london i'd not previously met - & i expect a lot of people who come out for the fun & games at dsei won't be the regulars like yr good self.

Even if that were true - it's still a totally self-referencial activist sub-scene, divorced from society.

Yeah but you know they're lies. Like the one saying Class War had 300 members. Why are you trying to present a rosier picture than the reality? Lying to ourselves helps no one.

doom-mongers who ignore the growth in the anarchist movement and act like cassandras because they no longer have the influence which once they did do no one any good and dissuade people from becoming involved. i'd agree that the movement is not as large as it should be, but i'd rather talk it up than talk it down. if yr judging by the attendance at the g8, large numbers of people i know didn't go - i expect that a large proportion of people involved in the london anarchist movement didn't go, which i reckon is at least some hundreds of people who stopped in london.

if the anarchist movement is to become as large as i believe it should the last thing it needs is people who ignore the diversity and vibrancy of the movement. although membership of the national organisations hasn't increased dramatically over the last few years, neither have they shrunk (as appears to be the subtext to yr rather bitter comments). where some organisations on the scientifick socialist left are in what one hopes is terminal decline, local anarchist groups - small though they may be - appear to be enjoying a bit of a rebirth of popularity, with many springing up in the run-up to the g8.

whilst discussions of bakunin & kropotkin are just as popular now as they were ten years ago, more relevant discussions attract a greater range of people, both in terms of age & experience, than i recollect them doing some years ago. you may wish to write the obituary of the @ movement now, but i suspect you'll find it somewhat premature.

 

[Thora_v1]

radical conservation as a justification for activism...mmm...maybe...

But dancing in Tescos - that's good too, right?

 

[sihhi]

Lots of reasons I guess, I mean I've basically left the anarchist movement. Why? Cos it's a waste of time. Other people I've spoken to seem to be the same, apart from scenesters who got involved cos they thought it was "cool" and didn't give a shit about the ideas (you can tell them early on cos they say they don't like theory and "dead men with beards")

Really? Aren't you in SolFed?

I thought you were describing the AF in particular when you said "40-50 in out".

 

[dirtycrustie]

is that from yr vantage point at work?


[/i]how'd you define who's in & who's out? there's always a load of people i've never seen before at the bookfair - there were a load at the g8 from london i'd not previously met - & i expect a lot of people who come out for the fun & games at dsei won't be the regulars like yr good self.


[/i]doom-mongers who ignore the growth in the anarchist movement and act like cassandras because they no longer have the influence which once they did do no one any good and dissuade people from becoming involved. i'd agree that the movement is not as large as it should be, but i'd rather talk it up than talk it down. if yr judging by the attendance at the g8, large numbers of people i know didn't go - i expect that a large proportion of people involved in the london anarchist movement didn't go, which i reckon is at least some hundreds of people who stopped in london.

if the anarchist movement is to become as large as i believe it should the last thing it needs is people who ignore the diversity and vibrancy of the movement. although membership of the national organisations hasn't increased dramatically over the last few years, neither have they shrunk (as appears to be the subtext to yr rather bitter comments). where some organisations on the scientifick socialist left are in what one hopes is terminal decline, local anarchist groups - small though they may be - appear to be enjoying a bit of a rebirth of popularity, with many springing up in the run-up to the g8.

whilst discussions of bakunin & kropotkin are just as popular now as they were ten years ago, more relevant discussions attract a greater range of people, both in terms of age & experience, than i recollect them doing some years ago. you may wish to write the obituary of the @ movement now, but i suspect you'll find it somewhat premature.

Icepicks right here. Why continue to lie to ourselves. I suspect on some levels its to justify the roles we have chosen to play. Being honest about the state of the 'movement' (real or imaginary) shouldnt be seen as doom-mongering, but should surely be embrassed if you want to see that 'mass movement' you talk about. How will you navigate towards that goal if you defend the activity that keeps its numbers sparce? The anarchist movement has not grown in number despite 200 years of activity...why?

 

[Pickman's model]

the anarchist movement in this country is growing, albeit slowly, as a glance at the main anarchist event of the year, the anarchist bookfair, shows. from conway hall it has moved over the last several years through a series of increasingly large venues to the whatsit centre on holloway road this year. according to press reports, there are thousands upon thousands of wombles in the uk, and that's not counting the rest of the anarchist movement.

I dont think attenence at the bookfair is an indication of the'movements' strength in fact I think it shows how fragile we truely are, and only goes to show the strength of capitalism. In so much as radical identities can be sold back to people...in this case books, t-shirts etc..

i think that the implicit suggestion you make is much mistaken. the bookfair is, without doubt, the premier anarchist event of the year. however, i take issue with yr claim that by attending somewhere where things are on sale it amounts to an illustration of the total success of capitalism. there is a lot more to the bookfair than that - the meetings, the socialising, the exchange of ideas, renewing acquaintanceships... i don't believe that the sale of books or magazines at the bookfair is entirely equivalent to some @ version of waterstones, in that the money made there goes almost exclusively on funding activities for the next year for many groups. though there are some few commercial booksellers there, like housman's, they are greatly in the minority.

 

[dirtycrustie]

i think that the implicit suggestion you make is much mistaken. the bookfair is, without doubt, the premier anarchist event of the year. however, i take issue with yr claim that by attending somewhere where things are on sale it amounts to an illustration of the total success of capitalism. there is a lot more to the bookfair than that - the meetings, the socialising, the exchange of ideas, renewing acquaintanceships... i don't believe that the sale of books or magazines at the bookfair is entirely equivalent to some @ version of waterstones, in that the money made there goes almost exclusively on funding activities for the next year for many groups. though there are some few commercial booksellers there, like housman's, they are greatly in the minority.

yes but the event is still inside the marketplace of capitalism...from the rent of the building..to the cost of printing the books....regardless of how well intentioned it is not outside.