resistance and activism?

[Top Dog]

I am interested in the rejection of historical dialectics for a variety of reasons,
I believe this concept should be explored further by those inside the pro-revolutionary anti-capitalist milieu that questions the possibility (and desirability) of the workers state or Dual power as the only precursors to the demise of capitalism.

dirtycrustie, one of us is a little confused with your choice of terminology and im not sure which one...

are you referring to historical materialism as the thing that you disagree with? it might be me but i havent heard of historical dialectics in the ways you refer to...

To me, the central point in your post seems to be to debunk the idea of 'economic determinism', but to use P&P's favourite noun this is a straw man argument to which you will find no one disagreeing with you - not even the trots!

I dont understand how this relates to your OP or points that have emerged since though

Sorry - the second part of your post i just didnt understand...

 

[Herbert Read]

Why not,

capatalism and its totality can accommodate all politics

Activism is a charade and a pantomine of the socially incurable...simple yet beautiful

 

[dirtycrustie]

dirtycrustie, one of us is a little confused with your choice of terminology and im not sure which one...

are you referring to historical materialism as the thing that you disagree with? it might be me but i havent heard of historical dialectics in the ways you refer to...

To me, the central point in your post seems to be to debunk the idea of 'economic determinism', but to use P&P's favourite noun this is a straw man argument to which you will find no one disagreeing with you - not even the trots!

I dont understand how this relates to your OP or points that have emerged since though

Sorry - the second part of your post i just didnt understand...

By historical dialectics I mean that which emcompasses dialectics in the marxist tradition.ie- relational dialectics- the movement of history, and epistemological dialectics- a set of laws or principles, governing some sector or the whole of reality -ontological dialectics.

While economic determinism is in my arguement, I feel you have missed the point. Thats probabley more to do with my inability to express myself fluently in these formats. While 'economic determinism' has been touched upon in my posts, this is not the point of my musings..merely I wish to open a debate regarding our methods of achieving our goals.Free comunism.

 

[Top Dog]

By historical dialectics I mean that which emcompasses dialectics in the marxist tradition.ie- relational dialectics- the movement of history, and epistemological dialectics- a set of laws or principles, governing some sector or the whole of reality -ontological dialectics.

While economic determinism is in my arguement, I feel you have missed the point. Thats probabley more to do with my inability to express myself fluently in these formats. While 'economic determinism' has been touched upon in my posts, this is not the point of my musings..merely I wish to open a debate regarding our methods of achieving our goals.Free comunism.

crikey...

This is getting way off topic, but briefly, this seems to be a terminology thing. Im more familiar with terms like historical materialism or dialectical materialism, which im assuming you're also referring to with 'relational dialectics'. However, while Marx wrote much about the materialist conception of history in, say, the German Ideology, its important to be clear on what dialectics is and what it isnt... as Engels and then Kautsky are more closely associated with the above terms (his-mat & dia-mat) than Marx ever was.

Q: do you reject materialism as means of understanding of how we conceive of the world around us?

 

[sihhi]

Some thoughts from sunny greece.

p.s. we gave the cops a good beating in Xanthi at the No Borders Action

Are you calling for no borders/open borders in Xanthi Greece?

Aren't working class people in Northern Greece opposed to the influx of Albanian (aswell as Romanian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian) cheap labour.

Genuine question BTW.

Because it's definitely the case in Edirne Turkey.

 

[dirtycrustie]

crikey...

This is getting way off topic, but briefly, this seems to be a terminology thing. Im more familiar with terms like historical materialism or dialectical materialism, which im assuming you're also referring to with 'relational dialectics'. However, while Marx wrote much about the materialist conception of history in, say, the German Ideology, its important to be clear on what dialectics is and what it isnt... as Engels and then Kautsky are more closely associated with the above terms (his-mat & dia-mat) than Marx ever was.

Q: do you reject materialism as means of understanding of how we conceive of the world around us?

No. This is a position from which I concieve the world and my relationship to reality, what I do reject in dialectics is dialectical oppositon, objectively, no kind of opposition at all.
Here we enter the murky waters of an anti-dialectical politics....

 

[Top Dog]

Here we enter the murky waters of an anti-dialectical politics....

what exactly is anti-dialectical politics if its not idealist?

And this time explain in plain english please...

 

[Gumbert]

what exactly is anti-dialectical politics if its not idealist?

And this time explain in plain english please...

then it gets into dialectic territory

it is interesting to see the theorectical fallout of narch against anarch..

specially when theres no "trots" about....

herb that pint still awaits..

 

[Raw SslaC]

Are you calling for no borders/open borders in Xanthi Greece?

Aren't working class people in Northern Greece opposed to the influx of Albanian (aswell as Romanian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian) cheap labour.

Genuine question BTW.

Because it's definitely the case in Edirne Turkey.

We were calling for "NO BORDERS", borders are there for the management and division of working class people and are solely a tool for statists, nationalists, bosses and fascists to mantain "national identities" and dominance in society. There abolition was the main slogan for the action.