Renting via Estate Agents..?

[maomao]

That just a load of urbanite bollocks. And you want to buy a property so that you can sit back a make a nice little profit without doing anything.

If you said that all property should be owned collectively and we are all just tenants then I could respect that but essentially you dont like things as they are because you are finding it difficult to get a slice of the cake, not because you dont like the cake in the first place.

In what way do I want to make a profit? I want a house/home in London to raise a family. I'm also not a typical 'urbanite' thanks.

 

[Stoat Boy]

In what way do I want to make a profit? I want a house/home in London to raise a family. I'm also not a typical 'urbanite' thanks.

So why express a desire to buy ? If you just want a home what would be wrong with renting it ? After all surely you dont believe in inherited wealth ?

 

[maomao]

Basically I said that I think landlordism is evil and I'd disown a family member who was in your business and you're interpreting that as meaning that I want to be a landlord? Am I right?

 

[teuchter]

Apparently the inventory is a much bigger job now, photos of the condition of things, and stuff like that.

.

Not the one the letting agents did on our place a couple of months ago. It was a scruffy photocopied form, with cursory and not entirely accurate remarks made for each room. We sent it back to them with a load of stuff added. ie. We actually did most of the work.

however, it seems that a lot of people simply don't do internet searches for privately offered properties.

When we were looking recently, we were on the lookout for privately offered places in order to circumvent the agent nonsense. But there were very few advertised. Hardly any on rightmove and sites like that. One or two on gumtree, but often you couldn't tell from the advert and when you phoned up it'd turn out to be an agent after all. The few occasions where we managed to speak to the landlord direct were generally where we'd been a bit sneaky and managed to get their details somehow, or put a note through the letterbox.


Oh and another thing about letting agents - a lot of them have a really bad habit of putting up fake adverts on gumtree. As in the picture would be of somewhere different. So you'd see an advert and look at the photo which wouldn't be of a house you'd seen, but then phone up and it would turn out it was.

 

[maomao]

So why express a desire to buy ? If you just want a home what would be wrong with renting it ? After all surely you dont believe in inherited wealth ?

I wouldn't object to social housing at all but given that I'm young, male and work for a living it's not an option. So what I'm stuck with is pissing money away to an arsehole who produces nothing on an unfurnished contract where I have almost no rights whatsoever. Social housing not being available is another symptom of the same system that gives us buy to let landlords.

What depresses me most is that the landlord's attitude to maintenance means a nice Victorian house will be pretty much uninhabitable within a few years. he doesn;t give a fuck of course because by dividing it into 5 poxy little flats with inflated rents he'll have made back his outlay and a healthy profit on top.

You wouldn't allow people to do that with food, why allow it with shelter?

 

[Stoat Boy]

Basically I said that I think landlordism is evil and I'd disown a family member who was in your business and you're interpreting that as meaning that I want to be a landlord? Am I right?

So why would you want to 'own' a property then ?

I can buy into the socialist arguements about state owned housing without agreeing with them but I am very wary of people who moan about the whole buy-to-let market, which has existed ever since the first concept of people being able to own their own land came about, by saying that its pricing them out of the market because invariably it means its more about envy than any desire to see society change for the better.

 

[maomao]

]
I can buy into the socialist arguements about state owned housing without agreeing with them but I am very wary of people who moan about the whole buy-to-let market, which has existed ever since the first concept of people being able to own their own land came about, by saying that its pricing them out of the market because invariably it means its more about envy than any desire to see society change for the better.

Wanting reasonable shelter for my family is envy? Lovely attitude there. As I've said, social housing would be great (and presumably cost me less) but isn't an option in my position.

Things will be getting a lot better for you I suppose as it seems your lot is coming back to power. I'll be on a boat out of this shithole country within a year if they do.

 

[fogbat]

Oh and another thing about letting agents - a lot of them have a really bad habit of putting up fake adverts on gumtree. As in the picture would be of somewhere different. So you'd see an advert and look at the photo which wouldn't be of a house you'd seen, but then phone up and it would turn out it was.

Black Katz used to be renowned for this.

Also, just putting up adverts for flats that didn't exist in the first place.

 

[teuchter]

Black Katz used to be renowned for this.

Also, just putting up adverts for flats that didn't exist in the first place.

Yeah, that too.


Davis and Gibbs seemed to one of the worst offenders when we were looking.

 

[kabbes]

Apologies for ranting a little but this thread has got me thinking.

Is there any other legitimate business in the world in which all parties involved seem to start out with such a mutual loathing and mistrust of each other ?

Even the language used in it is arcane and implies all sorts of thing in terms of the relationship between each other where as it should really just be like any other commercial transaction in which you have a supplier of goods (the Landlord), the customer (the tenant) and on occasion the Agents who make the introductions.

Been in the business for over 20 years and for somebody with no formal qualifications its been good to me but this thread has made me realise that what I am finding increasingly horrendous about it is that everybody concerned seems to dislike the other. Landlords don’t trust tenants and visa versa. Landlords and tenants dislike Agents who have, on the whole, nothing but contempt for both of them as well. Government treats is as a dart board in which to throw ever increasing amounts of legislation at which seem to help nobody and just mess things up even more but enables them to peddle this myth of big bad landlords and poor put upon tenants when in my experience its usually the other way around (although I am fussy who I deal with and in my experience landlords who pick agents based on the lowest fees tend to be those who are the worst when it comes to looking after a property once tenants are in )

As a business model is works on many levels not least of which is that you don’t have the cash flow problems that many others encounter ( in 20 years I have been knocked for under £2000 and in both cases managed to get recompense through other means) but I cannot think of another in which the levels of over-all customer satisfaction are lower.

I have been thinking about getting out for a long long time but this thread has provided me with the final nail in the coffin for it because of the way everybody seems to react to it including me who has found myself despising several posters for no other reason than that’s just how the business is.

In every one of those 20 years I have made a profit, have a massive amount of return business and get almost all my new business through referrals so I must be doing something right but there has never been real job satisfaction and for the first time I can see why. Residential lettings must be the area of business activity that has the lowest amount of total customer satisfaction when viewed as an over all transaction. And that’s quite soul destroying.

I don't really agree with this. I've had two long term tenants and two short term tenants and I got on well with all of them. They were nice to me, I was nice to them, we never had any disagreements or fallings out and we trusted each other from day 1.

It's just the agents that I think are scum of the Earth. And it needn't be like that at all. There's no reason that they couldn't provide a service without being backstabbing, profiteering, bullying bastards. But they don't.

 

[kabbes]

When we were looking recently, we were on the lookout for privately offered places in order to circumvent the agent nonsense. But there were very few advertised. Hardly any on rightmove and sites like that. One or two on gumtree, but often you couldn't tell from the advert and when you phoned up it'd turn out to be an agent after all. The few occasions where we managed to speak to the landlord direct were generally where we'd been a bit sneaky and managed to get their details somehow, or put a note through the letterbox.

I guess it's a bit chicken-and-egg, although it should gradually improve to the glorious day when the world wakes up and realises that it simply doesn't need estate agents any more, when the whole marketplace can be simply on the internet instead.

Our website for our flat was 1000× better than any letting agent advert anyway. It just simply seemed that people in our target market looking for long term lets generally didn't look online. Lots of short-term interest though.

 

[kabbes]

Basically I said that I think landlordism is evil and I'd disown a family member who was in your business and you're interpreting that as meaning that I want to be a landlord? Am I right?

I agree that privately letting property is a symptom of the much wider blight of capitalism. But, frankly, it's a long, long way down the list. And it's much more symptom than cause. We just want to save for our retirement and it seemed like a more practical option than just having a pension invested in shares.

You're also not allowing for segmentation of the market. What you say is true for those who are being forced to rent when they would like to buy but straw polls I've done suggest that something like 20%-30% of the rental market actually consists of people that are choosing to rent.

We specifically bought a place in a market segment that is dominated by people who could afford to buy but are choosing to rent for other reasons. So far, we've had guy going through a divorce who needed to rent until he and his wife could sell their house, two people who were moving country (one in, one out) and needed to live somewhere temporarily and one young director of a company who simply doesn't want to be tied down to living in one place. I'm providing a service to those people, not depriving them of the option of shelter.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Yeah, that too.


Davis and Gibbs seemed to one of the worst offenders when we were looking.

Last time I was looking, every single property with every agency without exception that was advertised turned out to have "just gone yesterday", "oh we really should update the website".

I stopped bothering asking about specifics I'd seen and just said "yeah this is my budget, what have you got in area X?"

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Oh, and rental agents are at best useless rip-off artists who don't bother you after they've ripped you off, and at worst, continuous parasites.

My lot haven't charged me a penny since the usual "reference check" bollocks but they do absolutely nothing. They don't even have a spare key, as I discovered when I locked myself out and went round to their office.

 

[kabbes]

Oh, and rental agents are at best useless rip-off artists who don't bother you after they've ripped you off, and at worst, continuous parasites.

My lot haven't charged me a penny since the usual "reference check" bollocks but they do absolutely nothing. They don't even have a spare key, as I discovered when I locked myself out and went round to their office.

Would YOU trust those bunch of shite artists with a key to your home?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

They didn't even have an inventory ffs. I suppose that means I can break whatever the fuck I like though.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Would YOU trust those bunch of shite artists with a key to your home?

I'm fairly sure they have one somewhere - they just wouldn't do anything useful with it like lend it to me. I can't see an estate agent giving up the ability to come round and show tenants around while you're in your pants.

 

[kabbes]

I'm fairly sure they have one somewhere - they just wouldn't do anything useful with it like lend it to me. I can't see an estate agent giving up the ability to come round and show tenants around while you're in your pants.

First thing I did when when of these tossers actually found me a tenant is round up my keys. No WAY that I'm trusting them not to do anything inappropriate.

Like, for example, the way in which they all told their clients that they could use the parking space attached to my flat just because my flat happened to be on their books. Can you believe the nerve? On the day my tenant moved in, he had to phone me to tell me that he couldn't park in his space, which is how I found out what these shit mongers were doing -- they had told somebody in a different flat that he could use MY FUCKING SPACE whilst his space was out of action and had not even had the courtesy to tell me that they had done this. Unbelievable.

 

[maomao]

I can't see an estate agent giving up the ability to come round and show tenants around while you're in your pants.

It's fairly easy, and lots of fun, to make them stop doing this. The young man who is showing my flat at the moment is now quite clear that he can't do this while I'm at home.

 

[teuchter]

I guess it's a bit chicken-and-egg, although it should gradually improve to the glorious day when the world wakes up and realises that it simply doesn't need estate agents any more, when the whole marketplace can be simply on the internet instead.

Our website for our flat was 1000× better than any letting agent advert anyway. It just simply seemed that people in our target market looking for long term lets generally didn't look online. Lots of short-term interest though.

Did you advertise on the websites like rightmove or findaproperty? Or do you have to be an agent for that?

And how do people find your website - just google "flat for rent in x" or something?

Going through the process of looking for somewhere recently I did start to think there is massive room for improvement in the way rental properties are advertised.

What is needed a site basically like rightmove (with location maps, photos, and adjustable search criteria), but where independent landlords could advertise directly (alongside agents) and, importantly, where things were properly policed so that people couldn't advertise places that didn't exist, or with misleading details. Maybe with some minimum standards about what an advert should tell you - like accurate number of rooms and their sizes, and photos that actually tell you something useful (rather than a close-up of a fancy tap or a blurry picture of the back garden).

 

[kabbes]

Did you advertise on the websites like rightmove or findaproperty? Or do you have to be an agent for that?

And how do people find your website - just google "flat for rent in x" or something?

No, no rightmove or findaproperty. I don't know if you definitely have to be an agent but I do know that if you don't have to be an agent, I don't know how you manage it.

I used Google AdWords with loads of versions of "flat for rent in X", just as you said. I pretty much always was top of the list for searches. It was really, really successful actually, but chiefly for people looking for short term rather than long term lets.

Going through the process of looking for somewhere recently I did start to think there is massive room for improvement in the way rental properties are advertised.

What is needed a site basically like rightmove (with location maps, photos, and adjustable search criteria), but where independent landlords could advertise directly (alongside agents) and, importantly, where things were properly policed so that people couldn't advertise places that didn't exist, or with misleading details. Maybe with some minimum standards about what an advert should tell you - like accurate number of rooms and their sizes, and photos that actually tell you something useful (rather than a close-up of a fancy tap or a blurry picture of the back garden).

I completely agree. It's incredible that in this internet savvy world we still have estate agents charging a fortune to do something that the internet could do much better, if it were just organised appropriately. Someone more entrepeneurial than me with a better understanding of coding needs to get on it toot sweet, pedro.

 

[teuchter]

Oh yeah and another thing they do.

They always turn up 10 minutes late for any viewing appointment. And if there are still tenants in there, they don't bother to tell them in advance.

So you show up at the allotted time, knock on the door and are greeted by an existing tenant who had no idea you were coming. Then 10 minutes of awkward standing around in their kitchen with them trying to work whether they should offer you a cup of tea.

AND

On one occasion we went to look at somewhere and the agent asked to "borrow" 50p for the meter so she could park her stupid mini without getting booked. Deary me.

 

[sim667]

Did foxtons not get into trouble for fraudulently signing mortgage papers and the like? or am i getting confused?

 

[Choc]

Apologies for .....be the area of business activity that has the lowest amount of total customer satisfaction when viewed as an over all transaction. And that’s quite soul destroying.

i shouldn't think that because of this thread you should give up you profession stoat.

however for me to think about all this is such an eyeopener. so thanks for all the food for thought.


something interesting happened today. whilst foxton guy keeps ringing me to tell me to make up my mind today....my b/f checked with his mate whom basically offered us we could privately let his place from august, so this could be interesting (i need to check first if i like it its sub basement which i would normally not consider). this mate gets 1000/month presently (above our budget) but pays £60 every month to the agency. so that and this thread makes me think i am not buying into the letting agency market. who gives these people the right to rip us off so badly (both sides really). it just goes to show how irrational this whole market is. but equally annoying is that private landlords now also try to charge the maximum. but so it goes all to their own pockets.


so with this new situation in mind i will ring foxton guy back tomorrow and say that i would move into their property but only if they drop the initial fee. i don't think they'll do it though as in london there are always more people available to take a property. ..there are lots of empty rental flats atm still btw i saw 8 consecetive empty properties in the last week.

i wished i would know the landlady of this flat myself so she could save her 50 £monthly we would save etc. seems all so stupid!

 

[Choc]

btw we are also kind of landlords. my b/f has a very small flat which he now lets to his bro for a real fair rent. this feels much better and gives no headache all around.

 

[kabbes]

i shouldn't think that because of this thread you should give up you profession stoat.

however for me to think about all this is such an eyeopener. so thanks for all the food for thought.


something interesting happened today. whilst foxton guy keeps ringing me to tell me to make up my mind today....my b/f checked with his mate whom basically offered us we could privately let his place from august, so this could be interesting (i need to check first if i like it its sub basement which i would normally not consider). this mate gets 1000/month presently (above our budget) but pays £60 every month to the agency. so that and this thread makes me think i am not buying into the letting agency market. who gives these people the right to rip us off so badly (both sides really). it just goes to show how irrational this whole market is. but equally annoying is that private landlords now also try to charge the maximum. but so it goes all to their own pockets.


so with this new situation in mind i will ring foxton guy back tomorrow and say that i would move into their property but only if they drop the initial fee. i don't think they'll do it though as in london there are always more people available to take a property. ..there are lots of empty rental flats atm still btw i saw 8 consecetive empty properties in the last week.

i wished i would know the landlady of this flat myself so she could save her 50 £monthly we would save etc. seems all so stupid!

£60 per month for a £1000 per month flat -- i.e. 6% -- is very low as an agency charge. Normally they quote 10% + VAT with the knowledge that you can argue them down to 8% + VAT.