Remploy

[ViolentPanda]

I dont think its a question of being too thick,chymaera.
I think it's that i have a different view. Unfortunately disabled people can suffer abuse and murder in integrated or segregated settings.

Segregationists talk about safety etc....But Segregation is not the best or safest option for people in reality.

You just don't get it, do you?

It isn't up to doctrinaire muppets like you to decide what is or isn't the "best option", it's up to those people who are actually affected.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They get murdered and abused a hell of a lot more out in the open world, or have you not seen the murder cases reported nationally over the last few months.

I suspect that aprt from using them as objects to make a point with, Balders doesn't particularly care one way or t'other.
He's probably more concerned about having a continued throughput of "clients" he can "facilitate" into work.

Hey Balders, is your employer likely to benefit from Remploy's shift toward becoming a job agency?

 

[tbaldwin]

I dont agree VP. But do agree to the point that Integration is not a magic wand to cure all evils etc....
But segregating people due to their disability in the workplace has not exactly been a sparkling success has it?
I dont know how much experience you have of special schools or segregated workshops, but id guess from what youve said not a lot.
There are some really good special schools and some appalling ones. It depends not on the pupil intake but the head and teachers.
Some kids do OK from special schools and some need to be freed is quickly as possible.

VP you seem to have ignored this. Why ?

 

[ViolentPanda]

VP you seem to have ignored this. Why ?

Because it's meaningless. All you do is make a point that the people who are arguing with you have made previously.

 

[tbaldwin]

They get murdered and abused a hell of a lot more out in the open world, or have you not seen the murder cases reported nationally over the last few months.

Yes i have. But far far far far far more are murdered by paid carers....

 

[tbaldwin]

You just don't get it, do you?

It isn't up to doctrinaire muppets like you to decide what is or isn't the "best option", it's up to those people who are actually affected.

And who are they then? And who are you to speak for them?

 

[Irenick]

Yes i have. But far far far far far more are murdered by paid carers....

Paid carers, as in their own homes? So, disabled people integrated into the mainstream of society are being killed by their carers? Might they be safer in segregated environments?

 

[tbaldwin]

Paid carers, as in their own homes? So, disabled people integrated into the mainstream of society are being killed by their carers? Might they be safer in segregated environments?

No Irenick. I meant paid carers as in segregated care homes.
Think of what happened in Buckinghamshire,Cornwall or Sutton to people with learning disabilities.
And there will be many many more cases that have been simply hushed up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And who are they then?

The Remploy employees who are protesting the closures.

And who are you to speak for them?

Unlike you, I don't purport to speak for anyone except myself However, it's fairly easy to represent views that have been made clear on disability forums. Why not have a look at a few?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hey Balders, is your employer likely to benefit from Remploy's shift toward becoming a job agency?

Going to answer the question, Balders?

You wouldn't want people thinking you're a selfish cunt with an ulterior motive, would you?

 

[tbaldwin]

Going to answer the question, Balders?

You wouldn't want people thinking you're a selfish cunt with an ulterior motive, would you?

1 No
2 Yes.

 

[tbaldwin]

The Remploy employees who are protesting the closures.

Unlike you, I don't purport to speak for anyone except myself However, it's fairly easy to represent views that have been made clear on disability forums. Why not have a look at a few?

1 So you think this issue only affects them. Thats interesting...

2 Cor i never thought of that.....You really are clever........

 

[ViolentPanda]

1 So you think this issue only affects them. Thats interesting...

Have I said that?
Given that this thread has the title "Remploy", and it's about (shock! horror!) Remploy, then it makes sense to refer to the Remploy workers.

2 Cor i never thought of that.....You really are clever........

No I'm not, it's just that compared to you, even a village idiot looks like an intellectual.

 

[ViolentPanda]

1 No
2 Yes.

So you're not going to tell us whether your employer will benefit from the Remploy closures, and the shift to becoming a "facilitator" body.

Fair enough. Odd that while you're usually so free with your gob, you're being circumspect here.

Mind you, if your employer will benefit, that'd expose you as a hypocrite, wouldn't it? Best to keep quiet, eh?

 

[tbaldwin]

So you're not going to tell us whether your employer will benefit from the Remploy closures, and the shift to becoming a "facilitator" body.

Fair enough. Odd that while you're usually so free with your gob, you're being circumspect here.

Mind you, if your employer will benefit, that'd expose you as a hypocrite, wouldn't it? Best to keep quiet, eh?

VP. I am a hypocrite.

But I cant tell you cos ive got no idea......

 

[tbaldwin]

No I'm not, it's just that compared to you, even a village idiot looks like an intellectual.

crikey......

 

[nino_savatte]

Mr Foulkes is a fine man,

You have to be joking!

I almost spat on the fucker when I walked past him at Heathrow once. I decided not to waste my spit

 

[treelover]

latest on remploy

Remploy is proposing to close 28 factories employing 1,600 disabled workers, 15 sites fewer than originally planned, the company announced.
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In a "final" proposal to the Government, the firm said it still wanted to merge 11 plants and close 17 factories, but a number have been removed from an original closure list because of savings and an assumption of more public procurement orders.

Union leaders reacted with fury to the announcement, saying it was an "absolute disgrace" that Remploy still wanted to close factories.

The firm had said it wanted to close or merge 43 of its plants with the loss of 2,500 jobs under plans to spend more money creating work in "mainstream" employment.

The Government narrowly avoided an embarrassing defeat at the Labour Party annual conference when Work and Pensions Secretary Peter Hain announced a moratorium on closures and promised that none would go ahead without ministerial approval.

Paul Kenny, general secretary of the GMB union, said: "At the Labour Party Conference, the Government agreed a new direction based on 'choice' for disabled workers, using public procurement to generate a steady workload to secure the future of the Remploy factories as allowed under EU rules. Last week, the Trade and industry Select Committee endorsed this approach.

"Yet a mere six weeks later we have the absolute disgrace of a failed response from a failed management, putting forward, in public, proposals which completely ignore what was agreed at Bournemouth that will lead to the sacking of over 2,000 disabled workers.

"The picture that emerges with these proposals is that of senior people ingrained in the school of management incompetence, beset by rigidity, completely lacking in vision and only begrudgingly being prepared to tackle the waste of money and excessive overheads that is dragging Remploy into losses.

"This is the management that said 43 factories had to go. Now they say it is 28. They know that they are jumping the gun with these proposals.

"The very idea that this failed Remploy management could put forward proposals to the Secretary of State to secure Remploy's future is just as ludicrous as the idea that a manager who failed at Hartlepool FC was the right person to manage Liverpool in the Champions League. It is a total nonsense."

 

[Urbanblues]

There are a group of Remploy trade union members standing vigil opposite Parliament tonight. Please, spare a thought for them.