Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
These issues need to be reconciled.
Release Pól Brennan
- Thread starter Nigel
- Start date
These issues need to be reconciled.
No they don't. Society has, thankfully, moved on from that situation. If the parade was to celebrate the ending of the Troubles then you might have a point. It isn't though and it's only fools on both sides of the arguement that would make such a link.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
The situation in the North Of Ireland was based on the interests of British Imperialism. The Orange state was backed by the British, and probably still is by elements of the British Ruling Class, both financially and militarily. This is something that the Establishment wants to keep covered up to this day. Loyalist attacks were not only against Loyalists and Nationalists as a form of ethnic cleansing, but against soliciters such as Pat Finucane who also represented Loyalists.
Such tactics seem to used in Iraq today, through individuals were involved in FRU.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Will Convicted Murderer March Through Belfast?
Will Convicted Murderer March Through Belfast?
TOM News 30/10/08
The following statement from Jean Mc Bride regarding the forthcoming British army parade in Belfast was today issued through the Pat Finucane Centre:
"There have been many dark days since my son Peter was murdered in September 1992.
When the two soldiers convicted of his murder, Mark Wright and James Fisher, were granted early release in 1995 it was a blow.
When they were re-instated in the army, despite their murder convictions, it was a blow. They were posted to the Irish Guards Regiment as if to make the point that the murderers of an Irish citizen belonged in a so-called 'Irish' regiment.
When the MoD decided they could remain in the army despite a judge's ruling that no exceptional grounds existed to justify the decision it was yet another blow.
I now learn that soldiers of the Irish Guards, the regiment which includes the murderer of my son, are to march a couple of miles from my home.
When Peter's killers were sent to Iraq I said that my sympathies were with the Iraqi mothers whose sons might fall foul of the convicted murderers that were sent there.
But I want to know which officials in the MoD thought it right to parade the Irish Guards through Peter's home town.
James Fisher was convicted of the murder of my son and he remains in the Irish Guards Regiment. [Mark Wright was shot and slightly injured in a 'friendly fire' incident and was granted a medical discharge]
Will James Fisher be marching through Belfast?
Will his company or platoon be marching through Belfast, will his Commanding Officer be taking the salute?"
Troops Out Movement
Campaigning for British Withdrawal from Ireland
PO Box 1032 Birmingham B12 8BZ Tel: 0121 773 8683 0r 0797 017 4167
[email protected] www.troopsoutmovement
Will Convicted Murderer March Through Belfast?
TOM News 30/10/08
The following statement from Jean Mc Bride regarding the forthcoming British army parade in Belfast was today issued through the Pat Finucane Centre:
"There have been many dark days since my son Peter was murdered in September 1992.
When the two soldiers convicted of his murder, Mark Wright and James Fisher, were granted early release in 1995 it was a blow.
When they were re-instated in the army, despite their murder convictions, it was a blow. They were posted to the Irish Guards Regiment as if to make the point that the murderers of an Irish citizen belonged in a so-called 'Irish' regiment.
When the MoD decided they could remain in the army despite a judge's ruling that no exceptional grounds existed to justify the decision it was yet another blow.
I now learn that soldiers of the Irish Guards, the regiment which includes the murderer of my son, are to march a couple of miles from my home.
When Peter's killers were sent to Iraq I said that my sympathies were with the Iraqi mothers whose sons might fall foul of the convicted murderers that were sent there.
But I want to know which officials in the MoD thought it right to parade the Irish Guards through Peter's home town.
James Fisher was convicted of the murder of my son and he remains in the Irish Guards Regiment. [Mark Wright was shot and slightly injured in a 'friendly fire' incident and was granted a medical discharge]
Will James Fisher be marching through Belfast?
Will his company or platoon be marching through Belfast, will his Commanding Officer be taking the salute?"
Troops Out Movement
Campaigning for British Withdrawal from Ireland
PO Box 1032 Birmingham B12 8BZ Tel: 0121 773 8683 0r 0797 017 4167
[email protected] www.troopsoutmovement
Seems like the Editor of the Irish Independent disagrees with you (sorry, no link):
"Shinners again show they are bitter infants
Wednesday October 22 2008
All good men and women should rejoice at the decision of the Shinners to have counter-marches in Belfast to greet the return of the Royal Irish Regiment from active service in Afghanistan. I'm only sorry that I can't be there on the street, applauding them for their honesty and their decency in revealing, yet again, what a shower of pitiful and bitter infants they actually are.
And dear God, to think these people, not so long ago, were killing left, right and centre, and using the same moral compass that now causes them to protest at the return of Irish soldiers from UN-authorised duties fighting Islamo-fascists.
I imagine the debate preceding the decision to have counter-marches against the Royal Irish was probably conducted with the same intellectual gravity that the Shinners' forefathers had shown before throwing in their lot with Hitler.
If something is Brit, it's bad. Hence the Nazi agents being smuggled into Ireland with IRA assistance: hence the IRA lighting fires on the Black Mountain to guide Nazi bombers to Belfast; hence IRA U-boat missions to Ireland -- all in all, the Shinners' contribution to the Final Solution. And the Shinners can't say that all this was just part of a confused and ignorant past, because until recently, before someone cut it down, they continued to have annual commemorations at the statue of Sean Russell, the Nazi stooge who died in on his way to further the aims of the Third Reich in Ireland.
Grateful
Now, I confess, I'm profoundly grateful to the Shinner leadership that they've stopped killing people, even though I really don't know why they've done that, any more than I understand why they thought they had the right to start killing people in the first place. But there you are: having Shinners about the place is rather like having a demented uncle in the attic. You've no idea when he's going to stop knitting tea-cosies and instead, reach for the carving knife and resume his feud with the neighbours.
The timing and the reason are for him to decide, though not to explain; for no explanation is possible. And I have to say, that if the mad uncle in the attic is going to expend his energies complaining about Irish soldiers serving in Afghanistan, that's a considerable improvement on what he was doing before, which was murdering them in their homes.
Of course, it is irrelevant that in my lifetime there has barely been a more lawful war than that in Afghanistan: it is being fought on a UN mandate against an enemy which is an active ally of al-Qai'da. We know the calibre of this enemy; we know his project; it was encapsulated by the murder of Gayle Williams, the British aid worker who was assassinated the other day in Kabul, and by the regular murder of little girls in Talmand province who are guilty of the heinous crime of being able to spell. And of course, to remind you all, these were the fine people behind 9/11.
What I'd really, really like to do is to put some Afghan women democrats in the same room as a group of Shinners, and to get the latter to outline their position on Afghanistan to the former. Similarly, I'd love to have got the Shinners of yesteryear to sit down with a train-load of Jews bound for Auschwitz and explain to them why they supported the Nazis.
Or equally, I would love to have heard Mary Lou McDonald, MEP for Dublin, get up in the European Parliament and explain why three years ago she gave the annual oration at the statue to Sean Russell, the Nazi collaborator.
Ah well. It is not to be: alas, life is full of such little disappointments. And another little disappointment is that the general furore over the US presidential election means the US media are unlikely to notice that Sinn Fein is now taking an effectively pro-Taliban, pro-al-Qai'da stance. At least, the Shinners have sought permission from the Parades Commission to have their anti-Royal Irish march. Dissident republicans (who actually are visitors from the planet Zog) have announced that since they don't recognise the Parades Commission, they're not going to seek permission to have their Royal Irish counter-marches, and they're just going to go ahead with them anyway.
Which of course makes their marches illegal: and you can be reasonably sure that if the peelers enforce the law against the loonies from Zog, then the other Shinners, their slightly less demented cousins from Xog, will revert to type and start complaining about police brutality. But I suppose, at one level, one can understand the position the mad Zog-Xog family are in. The Provisional IRA has largely disarmed, though it prides itself on being an undefeated army: yet here the Shinners will see the British army marching through the streets of Belfast, thereby reminding people what an undefeated army really looks like, and worse, how utterly pointless the IRA war really was."
The TOM also needs to realise the the Royal Irish Rangers and the Irish Guards are quite different units.
"Shinners again show they are bitter infants
Wednesday October 22 2008
All good men and women should rejoice at the decision of the Shinners to have counter-marches in Belfast to greet the return of the Royal Irish Regiment from active service in Afghanistan. I'm only sorry that I can't be there on the street, applauding them for their honesty and their decency in revealing, yet again, what a shower of pitiful and bitter infants they actually are.
And dear God, to think these people, not so long ago, were killing left, right and centre, and using the same moral compass that now causes them to protest at the return of Irish soldiers from UN-authorised duties fighting Islamo-fascists.
I imagine the debate preceding the decision to have counter-marches against the Royal Irish was probably conducted with the same intellectual gravity that the Shinners' forefathers had shown before throwing in their lot with Hitler.
If something is Brit, it's bad. Hence the Nazi agents being smuggled into Ireland with IRA assistance: hence the IRA lighting fires on the Black Mountain to guide Nazi bombers to Belfast; hence IRA U-boat missions to Ireland -- all in all, the Shinners' contribution to the Final Solution. And the Shinners can't say that all this was just part of a confused and ignorant past, because until recently, before someone cut it down, they continued to have annual commemorations at the statue of Sean Russell, the Nazi stooge who died in on his way to further the aims of the Third Reich in Ireland.
Grateful
Now, I confess, I'm profoundly grateful to the Shinner leadership that they've stopped killing people, even though I really don't know why they've done that, any more than I understand why they thought they had the right to start killing people in the first place. But there you are: having Shinners about the place is rather like having a demented uncle in the attic. You've no idea when he's going to stop knitting tea-cosies and instead, reach for the carving knife and resume his feud with the neighbours.
The timing and the reason are for him to decide, though not to explain; for no explanation is possible. And I have to say, that if the mad uncle in the attic is going to expend his energies complaining about Irish soldiers serving in Afghanistan, that's a considerable improvement on what he was doing before, which was murdering them in their homes.
Of course, it is irrelevant that in my lifetime there has barely been a more lawful war than that in Afghanistan: it is being fought on a UN mandate against an enemy which is an active ally of al-Qai'da. We know the calibre of this enemy; we know his project; it was encapsulated by the murder of Gayle Williams, the British aid worker who was assassinated the other day in Kabul, and by the regular murder of little girls in Talmand province who are guilty of the heinous crime of being able to spell. And of course, to remind you all, these were the fine people behind 9/11.
What I'd really, really like to do is to put some Afghan women democrats in the same room as a group of Shinners, and to get the latter to outline their position on Afghanistan to the former. Similarly, I'd love to have got the Shinners of yesteryear to sit down with a train-load of Jews bound for Auschwitz and explain to them why they supported the Nazis.
Or equally, I would love to have heard Mary Lou McDonald, MEP for Dublin, get up in the European Parliament and explain why three years ago she gave the annual oration at the statue to Sean Russell, the Nazi collaborator.
Ah well. It is not to be: alas, life is full of such little disappointments. And another little disappointment is that the general furore over the US presidential election means the US media are unlikely to notice that Sinn Fein is now taking an effectively pro-Taliban, pro-al-Qai'da stance. At least, the Shinners have sought permission from the Parades Commission to have their anti-Royal Irish march. Dissident republicans (who actually are visitors from the planet Zog) have announced that since they don't recognise the Parades Commission, they're not going to seek permission to have their Royal Irish counter-marches, and they're just going to go ahead with them anyway.
Which of course makes their marches illegal: and you can be reasonably sure that if the peelers enforce the law against the loonies from Zog, then the other Shinners, their slightly less demented cousins from Xog, will revert to type and start complaining about police brutality. But I suppose, at one level, one can understand the position the mad Zog-Xog family are in. The Provisional IRA has largely disarmed, though it prides itself on being an undefeated army: yet here the Shinners will see the British army marching through the streets of Belfast, thereby reminding people what an undefeated army really looks like, and worse, how utterly pointless the IRA war really was."
The TOM also needs to realise the the Royal Irish Rangers and the Irish Guards are quite different units.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I'll think you'll find Sinn Feinn, and definitely TOM has good relations with Womens' Groups in Afghanistan, where as the only thing that the British Army has done their is increase the supply of "Smack" to the west by building alliances with the real nutters, increase support for the Taliban, with which they funded and trained in accordance with American Foreign Policy, by trying out military hardware killing lots of civillians and uphold the interests of American( & Saudi) capital & strategic interests in that area.
There was much criticism of support for Sean Russell among republicans, even a letter in An Phobacht/Republican News as far as I remember. However politics around that era are a bit ambiguous on all sides.
There was much criticism of support for Sean Russell among republicans, even a letter in An Phobacht/Republican News as far as I remember. However politics around that era are a bit ambiguous on all sides.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
INVITATION - SINN FEIN LONDON BRIEFING MEETING
An Ireland of Equals: The Irish peace process and beyond
Speaker: Conor Murphy MP
Tuesday 9th December 2008, 7pm
Thatcher Room, Portcullis House, House of Commons, SW1A OAA
I am writing to invite you to attend a briefing meeting with senior Sinn Fein negotiator and Minister for Regional Development, Conor Murphy MP, on Tuesday 9th December in Westminster. The meeting will address all the recent developments in the political process, the current situation and give Sinn Fein's perspective for the new year, including a renewed focus on Irish unity and how people here can contribute to that discussion.
To confirm your attendance, and for any other queries please email [email protected] or ring 07940 565123. All welcome.
Best wishes,
Jayne Fisher
Sinn Fein London Office.
An Ireland of Equals: The Irish peace process and beyond
Speaker: Conor Murphy MP
Tuesday 9th December 2008, 7pm
Thatcher Room, Portcullis House, House of Commons, SW1A OAA
I am writing to invite you to attend a briefing meeting with senior Sinn Fein negotiator and Minister for Regional Development, Conor Murphy MP, on Tuesday 9th December in Westminster. The meeting will address all the recent developments in the political process, the current situation and give Sinn Fein's perspective for the new year, including a renewed focus on Irish unity and how people here can contribute to that discussion.
To confirm your attendance, and for any other queries please email [email protected] or ring 07940 565123. All welcome.
Best wishes,
Jayne Fisher
Sinn Fein London Office.
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
This thread has certainly been tedious with all the c&p keek supplied by our comrade nigel....
back on topic:
According to latest reports pol looks like winning his extradition fight thankfully:
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irish-voice/news/Articles/pol-brennan-deportation191108.aspx
back on topic:
According to latest reports pol looks like winning his extradition fight thankfully:
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irish-voice/news/Articles/pol-brennan-deportation191108.aspx
cantsin
Well-Known Member
usual empty , liberal clap trap giving moral equivalence to 'green and orange' , as if the history and experiences of the oppressed is no different from that of the oppressors, or the oppressors lapdogs .
For someone, presumably, from the mainland , to refer to "whining about past grievances " after all that happened over there, is pathetic .
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
If you want to put up a political argument then do so.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Monthly meeting of the Wolfe tone Society at the London Irish Centre, 50-52 Camden Square off Murray Sty, Camden NW1 at 8pm Thursday 4th Dec.
Two meetings we are involved in and organising
9th Dec Conor Murphy MLA Mp Sinn Fein at the house of commons.
Sunday 25th Jan 09 Bloody Sunday Meeting .
We would like as many members to attend and to help in getting these events organised.
Is mise le mease
Wolfe Tone Society
Two meetings we are involved in and organising
9th Dec Conor Murphy MLA Mp Sinn Fein at the house of commons.
Sunday 25th Jan 09 Bloody Sunday Meeting .
We would like as many members to attend and to help in getting these events organised.
Is mise le mease
Wolfe Tone Society
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Where?
This thread has been move several times.
Originally on announce: protests, demos and actions
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/iris...ion191108.aspx
Bit of a result then?
Bit of a result then?
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
your link doesnt work try link
Very disapointing result, I love the way all the reports I have read keep saying ira 'militant' as if there is an other way!
How can one argue with a series of releases from differing political groups and organisations. Theres no cohesion there and relevance to the original thread title
I get where youre coming from and dont see the necessity of discussing here each post you made on the thread as it would entice a swarm of anti's & trolls. The original subject matter, such as it is, would be totally lost my friend.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out, as yet, I havent seen any coverage here in Ireland. From what i understand pol is weighing up whether to appeal or not.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I used this thread to put up posts dealing with similar issues around North Of Ireland & the peace protest, rather than having loads of threads dealing with similar issues.
Originally this was on Anounce protests demos & actions.
For some reason it has been changed?
Nothing to do with me.
I can ask for it to be changed back & change the thread title?
The link you mention was from someone else.
Originally this was on Anounce protests demos & actions.
For some reason it has been changed?
Nothing to do with me.
I can ask for it to be changed back & change the thread title?
The link you mention was from someone else.
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
ok
keep her lit!
keep her lit!
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Saville: "I must decline the invitation"
The Bloody Sunday Inquiry Chairman, Lord Saville, has told a British government Westminster committee he cannot meet it to explain the delay in publishing his Tribunal's findings of the ten-year inquiry into the murder of fourteen innocent civil rights protestors.
The committee said it had received a letter from Saville in which he said he could make no detailed comment ahead of the release of his final report which is now expected in the autumn of 2009.
In the letter, Saville wrote: "I understand from your letter that the purpose would be to examine reasons for the delay recently announced in the final publication of the inquiry's report and the continuing costs arising therefrom."
"You inform me that the Committee would not wish in any way to inquire into the details of the inquiry itself and that it is fully aware that it would be inappropriate to seek to do so."
"However, without going into such details it would not be possible for me to say more to the Committee than I have already said publicly, namely that this has been an inquiry involving nearly two thousand five hundred witnesses and tens of thousands of documents; and that the Tribunal are determined to deal fairly, accurately and thoroughly with all the many issues to which it has given rise, as they are sure Parliament intended when setting up the inquiry."
"In these circumstances I regret to say that I must decline the invitation."
Patrick Cormack, Chairman of the British government's Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, expressed the committee's disappointment and concern at the delay and at the "consequential costs".
The Bloody Sunday Inquiry Chairman, Lord Saville, has told a British government Westminster committee he cannot meet it to explain the delay in publishing his Tribunal's findings of the ten-year inquiry into the murder of fourteen innocent civil rights protestors.
The committee said it had received a letter from Saville in which he said he could make no detailed comment ahead of the release of his final report which is now expected in the autumn of 2009.
In the letter, Saville wrote: "I understand from your letter that the purpose would be to examine reasons for the delay recently announced in the final publication of the inquiry's report and the continuing costs arising therefrom."
"You inform me that the Committee would not wish in any way to inquire into the details of the inquiry itself and that it is fully aware that it would be inappropriate to seek to do so."
"However, without going into such details it would not be possible for me to say more to the Committee than I have already said publicly, namely that this has been an inquiry involving nearly two thousand five hundred witnesses and tens of thousands of documents; and that the Tribunal are determined to deal fairly, accurately and thoroughly with all the many issues to which it has given rise, as they are sure Parliament intended when setting up the inquiry."
"In these circumstances I regret to say that I must decline the invitation."
Patrick Cormack, Chairman of the British government's Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, expressed the committee's disappointment and concern at the delay and at the "consequential costs".
First of all I want to say I am not particularly a supporter of either "side" in NI politics.
Re. this guy's case: leaving aside his history and background, I don't think he should be deported after living for 25 years in America.
I point about this thread however: I have just read a couple of newspaper articles about it and it seems that neither the UK or US government made any issue of his IRA connections during the recent deportation hearing:
He has now lost the case, although
I can't see a reason why his work permit was not renewed (even tho' he had applied), which is apparently the reason he was picked up.
I can't fault the guy for trying to argue he is 'at risk' if extradited back to Ireland, because ultimately he is trying to remain with his family and continue his life in America.
However, I don't get the argument that this case is politically motivated on behalf of the UK government or the American government.
IMO it is just another example of an unjust and mindless American immigration bureauracy and 'justice' system, which manages to blunder along fucking up lots of people's lives - just like immigration systems in lots of countries, including the UK.
Re. this guy's case: leaving aside his history and background, I don't think he should be deported after living for 25 years in America.
I point about this thread however: I have just read a couple of newspaper articles about it and it seems that neither the UK or US government made any issue of his IRA connections during the recent deportation hearing:
source: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/14/america/NA-US-IRA-Detainee.php?page=1
He has now lost the case, although
source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6137400.html
I can't see a reason why his work permit was not renewed (even tho' he had applied), which is apparently the reason he was picked up.
I can't fault the guy for trying to argue he is 'at risk' if extradited back to Ireland, because ultimately he is trying to remain with his family and continue his life in America.
However, I don't get the argument that this case is politically motivated on behalf of the UK government or the American government.
IMO it is just another example of an unjust and mindless American immigration bureauracy and 'justice' system, which manages to blunder along fucking up lots of people's lives - just like immigration systems in lots of countries, including the UK.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I think they should just let him come home, deal with whatever he needs to deal with in the UK, and then he'll be free to apply to the US properly. The sooner he starts the sooner it'll be over, and meantime he'll get the chance to spend some time again in the land he professed to love so well he'd posess firearms and explosives to be used to kill people for it. I love the idea being promoted by the "executive director of the Center for Irish Programs at Boston College", who said that the UK government had given a "broad waiver to people involved in the Northern Ireland conflict as part of the 1998 Good Friday Accord." Not exactly.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
He didn't say he was a tourist who'd just been to Disneyland, though?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
As I understand it, tourists in the USA are only permitted to stay for 90 days and are under a condition of not working. So if he had an expired working permit he'd not be a tourist.
If you're a foreigner in their country and you had a work permit or visa which had expired it seems fair enough that the immigration people would hold you to check out whether you were entitled in law to stay there.
Correct, however the US immigration authorities do turn people away for basically the most stupid of reasons, over staying your holiday visa for 1 day, even as an accident can lead to a 10 year ban. Therefore when they have a real reason i.e. expired work permit the beaurocracy kicks in.
It doesn't work like that though (I'm an immigrant in the US myself). If you don't get the paperwork in on time they will deport you. If you leave the country and try to re-enter with an expired visa, they will deport you. If you don't tell the US government when you move house, they will fine you, possible imprison you, and possibly deport you (or you are going to have a tough job renewing your visa).
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
See, that all seems fair enough to me. It's their country and they set the rules for non-citizens - it's not as if the US rules are complicated! If I lived abroad as a foreigner i would take great care to sort out the paperwork and I'd know I would experience consequences if I didn't.
The fact that a country sets its own laws doesn't make those laws 'fair'.
Explain to me the purpose of deporting someone who has lived in America for 25 years, has an American wife and kids and who has applied for a visa renewal (and as I understand it has been trying to get citizenship for a long time as well)?
What reason is there behind this? What principle of justice do you invoke to justify doing this to someone and their friends and family? Who does it benefit - what public good does it serve?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
That's not a fair question to ask me, because as I suggested earlier, I have a particular view. I think this chap, who still has a jail sentence to complete, should come back home to face the music, and until that is dealt with I don't think the US authorities should give him house room.
He's not some unfortunate civilian who has got caught in an unforgiving bureaucratic machine. He's a convicted terrorist fugitive, found guilty and given a 16-year sentence for transporting explosives and a revolver for the IRA, presumably intended for their campaign of terrorising the civilian population. Big difference. Given the effect of the Good Friday Agreement he might be surprised at how quickly this could be sorted out, but he will probably have to spend a bit of time in jail near the green green grass of home. Once that's all clear he can make his case to the US authorities about getting a visa or becoming one of their citizens.
The public good is that people who seek to defeat the ends of justice shouldn't profit thereby. Hard on his new family but it's always hard when someone has a prison sentence to serve.
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