Regionalisation of RESPECT?

[KeyboardJockey]

or maybe he wasn't prepared to drift that far to the left!

<spits coffee over desk> LOL Respect. Left. Your having a laugh. Oh fuck Udo isn't Udo is serious

 

[Pilgrim]

Fuck me that was quick.

Certainly doesn't seem to have taken long.

And, to be fair, it calls his commitment to RESPECT into question.

I'd like to know exactly WHY he left before passing judgement, though.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Certainly doesn't seem to have taken long.

And, to be fair, it calls his commitment to RESPECT into question.

I'd like to know exactly WHY he left before passing judgement, though.

good point. It would be interesting to know t he reasons for re ratting. Is it personal ambition or is there a nasty political smell from within respect?

 

[mutley]

good point. It would be interesting to know t he reasons for re ratting. Is it personal ambition or is there a nasty political smell from within respect?

In areas where Respect are looking like contenders, there's a lot of 'personal ambition' on display. We had a whole number of people who wanted to stand in the aston byelection earlier in the summer in Brum. We didn't feel confident about any of them and stood noone in the end.

 

[butchersapron]

In areas where Respect are looking like contenders, there's a lot of 'personal ambition' on display. We had a whole number of people who wanted to stand in the aston byelection earlier in the summer in Brum. We didn't feel confident about any of them and stood noone in the end.

Weren't you on here earlier this year assuring us, on the basis of your expert local knowledge, that Dr Mohammed Naseem was finished in RESPECT? And have you any comments on his work with fascists - do you think this might interfere with his role on the RESPECT national committee in any way?

 

[Pigeon]

In areas where Respect are looking like contenders, there's a lot of 'personal ambition' on display. We had a whole number of people who wanted to stand in the aston byelection earlier in the summer in Brum. We didn't feel confident about any of them and stood noone in the end.

Christ on crutches! Who was in that motley crew?? Can we have some samples of their applications? It'd piss all over watching the X-Factor rejects, no doubt.

 

[Wilf]

It's a coalition - people have different views.

Please don't assume everyone in Respect is either a card carrying SWP member or has a caricaturist propensity to capitulate to so-called muslim conservativism.

The fact t6hat you are in a coalition with some ppl who are at best conservative and at worst hold repellent views is not the answer - its the problem

 

[mutley]

Weren't you on here earlier this year assuring us, on the basis of your expert local knowledge, that Dr Mohammed Naseem was finished in RESPECT? And have you any comments on his work with fascists - do you think this might interfere with his role on the RESPECT national committee in any way?

Yes i was rather hasty, but to be honest i underestimated the extent to which he would actually move to look after his base of support. He's been very active in getting backing for the last stw demo, and to be honest i'm not up for a fight with him over his bonkers ideas over the july 7 bombers.

As far as 'fascists' are concerned, i haven't read thru all of this thread, and i haven't chased up all the lastest dirt. I gave up chasing after supposed 'islamofascists' a while ago - it's just too time consuming. As soon as one phantom gets debunked another turns up. I'm not going to get excited over some inactive party with some nutcases in its ranks. I see the stuff he puts out at central mosque. Some of it is a bit loopy but not actually dangerous.

Dr N is 81. The problem will solve itself in a while..

 

[butchersapron]

As far as 'fascists' are concerned, i haven't read thru all of this thread, and i haven't chased up all the lastest dirt. I gave up chasing after supposed 'islamofascists' a while ago - it's just too time consuming. As soon as one phantom gets debunked another turns up. I'm not going to get excited over some inactive party with some nutcases in its ranks. I see the stuff he puts out at central mosque. Some of it is a bit loopy but not actually dangerous.

Ok, as you can't be bothered to do any research on the leading local RESPECT donor and one of your few high profile members in your own area, how do you feel about him working with well known homophobe, notorious anti-semite and influential far-right/fascist writer Alexander Baron. You might be interested in this article on The good Drs website from Baron
The Organised Homosexual Movement: Its Methods And Its Goals and the enthusiastic editorial endorsment of it here. Does this bother you in any way? That such a leading local member is pally with nationally known fascists?

 

[Random]

Yes i was rather hasty, but to be honest i underestimated the extent to which he would actually move to look after his base of support...

So -- we didn't realise how useful he'd be to us. Qyite staggering opportunism. Who else would you work with if they could get the numberts out, thn?

Dr N is 81. The problem will solve itself in a while..

This is just downright sad. It also assumes that Dr N is not part of a tendency or movement within RUC that will outlive him. What if some of those 'numbers' he gets out end up having some kind of ideological link with him, just like all those who the SWP mobilises get 'pulled to the left'...?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

The fact t6hat you are in a coalition with some ppl who are at best conservative and at worst hold repellent views is not the answer - its the problem

Respect policy is decided democratically not by individuals. The founding declaration stated:

"We stand for:
...
* Opposition to all forms of discrimination based on race, gender, ethnicity, religious beliefs (or lack of them), sexual orientation, disabilities, national origin or citizenship."

and the conference passed the following policy that I agree with:

LGBT rights

This conference welcomes the production of a Respect leaflet for London Pride.

It supports the policies outlined in that leaflet i.e.

* An end to discrimination against lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people
* For Equal partnership and pension rights
* For strong policies to tackle homophobia in all public bodies
* For an increase in public services that meet the needs of lesbians, gay men bisexuals and transgendered people, rather than money wasted on war.

Conference instructs the incoming National Committee to produce similar material for all Pride events next year and urges local groups to make sure the material is distributed at events in their area.

What problem do you have with these policies?

 

[mutley]

Ok, as you can't be bothered to do any research on the leading local RESPECT donor and one of your few high profile members in your own area, how do you feel about him working with well known homophobe, notorious anti-semite and influential far-right/fascist writer Alexander Baron. You might be interested in this article on The good Drs website from Baron
The Organised Homosexual Movement: Its Methods And Its Goals and the enthusiastic editorial endorsment of it here. Does this bother you in any way? That such a leading local member is pally with nationally known fascists?

No, it does bother me, but as i have seen absolutely no sign of Dr N having any kind of organised political base, as opposed to one based on a soft 'he paid for the mosque you know' basis I'm not up for a massive scrap with him over the bizarre views on that website.

I would take issue with the idea that this Alexander Baron is 'well known' or 'influential.'

As has been pointed out Respect has passed clear policy on gay liberation, with no sign of organised opposition. The contradiction is Dr N's problem.
As far as the cash is concerned, most of it was money spent in his constituency. He spent thousands before th controlled period for elections began.

He just doesn't have political influence in respect.

 

[Random]

He just doesn't have political influence in respect.

So you're just using him?

 

[Wilf]

Respect policy is decided democratically not by individuals. The founding declaration stated:



and the conference passed the following policy that I agree with:



What problem do you have with these policies?

Nice footwork - with a deft touch you quickly got away from the tricky problem of Mr Naseem to your overall policy. Well, okay, lets stay on that point: do you think Mr Naseem would sign up to that policy? Presumably not - and so would you support moves to kick him out? Oh, and please don't use the 'no single person agrees with everything' line. This is a central issue - and one in which he is as far away from any kind of left position as is imaginable.

 

[butchersapron]

No, it does bother me, but as i have seen absolutely no sign of Dr N having any kind of organised political base, as opposed to one based on a soft 'he paid for the mosque you know' basis I'm not up for a massive scrap with him over the bizarre views on that website.

I would take issue with the idea that this Alexander Baron is 'well known' or 'influential.'

As has been pointed out Respect has passed clear policy on gay liberation, with no sign of organised opposition. The contradiction is Dr N's problem.
As far as the cash is concerned, most of it was money spent in his constituency. He spent thousands before th controlled period for elections began.

He just doesn't have political influence in respect.

So is this the rule then, you can disagree with the parties policies in the most violent and disgusting manner, and still join, no, more than that, you can stand for the party in General Elections, no more even than that you can be voted onto the governing National Committee. I can see your argument if this was small disagreement on a peripheral issue and if there was a possibility of the parties policy being overtuned, but it's not is it?

It's a central and fundamental issue and one that's indicative of and has a direct bearing on how you relate to the more conservative elements in your orbit - the line we've been fed is that this type of behaviour or view has been and always will be directly challenged. So challenge it.

And your casual dismisal of his links with a facist (for fucks sake!), on the basis that he's not well known is frankly, piss poor, but oh so revealing.

 

[butchersapron]

So you're just using him?

Them?

 

[Random]

Them?

No, there's just him, alone.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

So is this the rule then, you can disagree with the parties policies in the most violent and disgusting manner, and still join, no, more than that, you can stand for the party in General Elections, no more even than that you can be voted onto the governing National Committee. I can see your argument if this was small disagreement on a peripheral issue and if there was a possibility of the parties policy being overtuned, but it's not is it?

It's a central and fundamental issue and one that's indicative of and has a direct bearing on how you relate to the more conservative elements in your orbit - the line we've been fed is that this type of behaviour or view has been and always will be directly challenged. So challenge it.

And your casual dismisal of his links with a facist (for fucks sake!), on the basis that he's not well known is frankly, piss poor, but oh so revealing.

I am (for once) sympathetic to Butchers on this issue. It is one thing for Dr. N to be allowed to join Respect, but why Birmingham Respect nominated him as a candidate is crazy and is damaging to the organisation

 

[BarryB]

No, it does bother me, but as i have seen absolutely no sign of Dr N having any kind of organised political base, as opposed to one based on a soft 'he paid for the mosque you know' basis I'm not up for a massive scrap with him over the bizarre views on that website.

I would take issue with the idea that this Alexander Baron is 'well known' or 'influential.'

As has been pointed out Respect has passed clear policy on gay liberation, with no sign of organised opposition. The contradiction is Dr N's problem.
As far as the cash is concerned, most of it was money spent in his constituency. He spent thousands before th controlled period for elections began.

He just doesn't have political influence in respect.

Wasant Alexander Baron the bloke who took the SWP bookshop Bookmarks to court over them selling Searchlight? Yet the good Doctor can carry his material on his website and the SWP still works with him.

BarryB

 

[butchersapron]

Yes he was. It just gets dafter.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

I should note that the articles quoted have not been demonstrated to have been written by Dr. N

 

[butchersapron]

I should note that the articles quoted have not been demonstrated to have been written by Dr. N

No one has claimed that they are though (except the 7/7 conspiracy stuff). The first is from Alexander Baron and was published in the Dr's Islamic Party of Britains magazine and on their website, the 2nd is the editorial endorsment of those views signed by the party as a whole. Dr. Muhammad Naseem is one of the Parties 4 members and is an 'executive member...and the party's home affairs spokesman' as well as writing for the above magazine.

 

[mutley]

I am (for once) sympathetic to Butchers on this issue. It is one thing for Dr. N to be allowed to join Respect, but why Birmingham Respect nominated him as a candidate is crazy and is damaging to the organisation

If you mean nominated him as a GE candidate I certainly wasn't familiar with any of this stuff at the time. He pushed himself forward repeatedly, and in the end people decided to accomodate him rather than turn him down. There seemed little chance of him winning the seat.

If you mean nominated him for the national committee we didn't. (at least not as a collective - some individual in Brum might have done.) I don't know who has nominated that list.

As far as the fascist article goes, I'd never heard of this character Baron before. I've no idea if Dr N knows anything about him except for what's in that rather vile article Butchers linked to. I've also no idea who actually runs that website. It's not 'Dr N's' personal site. He's not exactly a whizz at IT.

But i will be asking around to see who knows about the stuff people have turned up, and who nominated him. If there was the slightest sign of him pushing homophobic stuff in Respect or the community then i'd approach it with a lot more urgency but there isn't. He did put forward a motion for Respect conference which argued that the abolition of money should be a central Respect policy which he got talked out of. He's basically an old man with some weird ideas, and obviously some associates with nasty ones. In Brum we have a choice between a public and open scrap or...waiting.

 

[JHE]

Dr N is 81. The problem will solve itself in a while..

You want the old Muslim dead! You are a brute - a brute and an ingrate!

Respec' was a much-wanted baby. Like all babies, it had a mummy and a daddy. John Rees went a-wooing. He went to the Brum Central Mosque (prop. Mohammed Naseem). JR, wearing his red fist badge, and MN, wearing his tinfoil-lined wig, talked into the night of a Peace and Justice Party. It was there that Respec' was conceived.

 

[neprimerimye]

So is this the rule then, you can disagree with the parties policies in the most violent and disgusting manner, and still join, no, more than that, you can stand for the party in General Elections, no more even than that you can be voted onto the governing National Committee.

This is rather unfair old sport. Simply because Dr Naseem is a member of the Respect NC this does not mean he has any political influence in that body. In fact it is more truthful to point out that no one on the Respect NC has any political influence in Respect. Unless they happen to be named Galloway, Rees or German.

Substitute the names Harman, Bambery and Smith for Galloway and the same can be said, again quite truthfully, about the SWP's leading committee too.

 

[DaveCinzano]

If you mean nominated him as a GE candidate I certainly wasn't familiar with any of this stuff at the time.

friendly word of advice... in future maybe a bit of background research might be in order