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Regionalisation of RESPECT?

KeyboardJockey said:
But Respect don't seem to be criticising people like Dr Qadawri who dont condemn it.

Comes to something when a Stalinist has to stand up against a human rights abuse and the swappies front organisation looks shifty and says nothing. :(
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To be honest, we didn't get many questions about female genital mutillation on the doorstep

By the way, I have never heard you say anything on the slaughter in the Congo - or can't you bring yourself to condemn it?
 
4thwrite said:
Which smears are they then? Only thing i've been asking for on this thread is a response to some pretty astonishing claims from one of your leaders.

You then go on to say the guy has a 'fondness for conspiracy theories' - but that they may be true?
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I think to claim that the 4 people accused of the bombings may be innocent is a legitimate line of enquiry.

Personally, I think conspiracy theories are a deadend, and avoid them like the plague
 
Udo Erasmus said:
To be honest, we didn't get many questions about female genital mutillation on the doorstep
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Like most abuse, this one mostly takes place behind closed doors and is one of those "horrors that don't speak their name", so better leave it all nicely buried under the carpet, eh? :rolleyes:

What would happen if you did get someone asking questions about it on the doorstep - someone who'd suffered it and wanted RESPECT to take a firm stance against it and campaign against it?
 
poster342002 said:
What would happen if you did get someone asking questions about it on the doorstep - someone who'd suffered it and wanted RESPECT to take a firm stance against it and campaign against it?
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Or, alternatively, if the question was shouted out from the 'Women Only' enclosure in one of their meetings..
 
Udo Erasmus said:
To be honest, we didn't get many questions about female genital mutillation on the doorstep

By the way, I have never heard you say anything on the slaughter in the Congo - or can't you bring yourself to condemn it?
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But I haven't heard any respectbots have a go about Dr Q and his iffy views on LBGT or FGM issues.

BTW I have condemned the slaughter in the Congo so don't come that line with me.
 
poster342002 said:
What would happen if you did get someone asking questions about it on the doorstep - someone who'd suffered it and wanted RESPECT to take a firm stance against it and campaign against it?
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That may actually put them on the spot. Might be beyond their programming parameters.
 
poster342002 said:
What would happen if you did get someone asking questions about it on the doorsptep - someone who'd suffered it and wanted RESPECT to take a firm stance against it and campaign against it?
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We are against female genital mutilation and many other oppressive practises that go on, but we can't prioritise every issue

By the way, I haven't read a single post on the slaughter in the Congo from you and fom Keyboard Jockey's lack of comment on the biggest number of dead since Vietnam, I can only suggest that he is a racist who thinks that people dying in Africa isn't worth shit
 
KeyboardJockey said:
BTW I have condemned the slaughter in the Congo so don't come that line with me.
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I've condemned FGM, so don't come that line with me.

The point is that we can invent all kinds of issues and say, "Respect says nothing about this - therefore they support it".

I know very little about Qaradawi, but I expect he is just as reactionary as many Fundamentalist chrisian evangelists - yet I don't see Keyboard Jockey demanding why Respect doesn't comment on the latest visit of some christian bigot
 
Yet another attempted smear of others as racist - 3 in an hour! Well done udo.

Why haven't you commented on the french riots - i can only assume that you're a stinking racist.
 
Udo Erasmus said:
We are against female genital mutilation and many other oppressive practises that go on, but we can't prioritise every issue
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So, what "priority" does this form of oppression get, then? Or does this, in effect, mean simply ignoring it? And could you or your party stand in front of a survivor of FGM and justify it?
 
Udo Erasmus said:
We are against female genital mutilation and many other oppressive practises that go on, but we can't prioritise every issue

By the way, I haven't read a single post on the slaughter in the Congo from you and fom Keyboard Jockey's lack of comment on the biggest number of dead since Vietnam, I can only suggest that he is a racist who thinks that people dying in Africa isn't worth shit
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Udo fuck off with the racist accusation. Don't you dare hide behind that one. I have condemned the deaths in the Congo and the deaths in Iraq and my own governments complicity in these deaths.

Racist - don't make me laugh. I have never said either on here or offline that Africans deaths are worth less than deaths elsewhere.

Now who is perpetrating smears on here.

The only time I have brought race/religion into stuff is to condemn the stupid and shortsighted use of backwards looking communitarian politics that Respect are involved in which are divisive and allow religion to have far more influence on society than it should.
 
Udo Erasmus said:
I've condemned FGM, so don't come that line with me.

The point is that we can invent all kinds of issues and say, "Respect says nothing about this - therefore they support it".

I know very little about Qaradawi, but I expect he is just as reactionary as many Fundamentalist chrisian evangelists - yet I don't see Keyboard Jockey demanding why Respect doesn't comment on the latest visit of some christian bigot
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For a party that purports to be socialist laying in to Christian bigots should be something that should be second nature.

I've slagged of Christian bigots and I would expect a party that purports to be socialist to take a stand against the likes of Christian Voice. So come on then when have Respect slagged off visiting christian loons then? Lets have some links!
 
Udo Erasmus said:
I know very little about Qaradawi, but I expect he is just as reactionary as many Fundamentalist chrisian evangelists - yet I don't see Keyboard Jockey demanding why Respect doesn't comment on the latest visit of some christian bigot
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To add.....

I don't like the fucking snake handling type of christians any more than the next reasonable person but they don't not condemn chopping the clitorises off of women do they - unlike Qaradawi.
 
And another thing....

I have LGBT muslim friends who live in fear of the likes of Dr Q and his pals. What are you (udo and the respectbots) going to do for them? Or aint there enough of them to justify offending the more conservative members of that faith.
 
Paul Marsh said:
and England "probably" won the World Cup in 1966!
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LOL.

Seriously though, why aint Respect reaching out to the LGBT muslims and the feminist muslims and the many other shades of progressive Islam that exist why are they not making a dialoge with those muslims scholars who are saying 'the koran can't be touched but there are a few of the Hadith which may have been put there for local political reasons' and why are they not looking at building dialoge with the likes of Siraj Manji the feminist muslim scholar. Why are they pandering to the conservative sector of the muslim community which has a reputation sometimes deserved for attitudes to women and LGBT people that don't sit comfortably in a country that for many reasons (not least having come through 450 years of killing / oppressing each other over religion) has started to take a more positive view of gender and sexual difference.

It wouldn't have anything to do with 'getting the block vote out would it'?

I'd have more respect for Respect if they picked their Islamic allies more carefully.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
And another thing....

I have LGBT muslim friends who live in fear of the likes of Dr Q and his pals. What are you (udo and the respectbots) going to do for them? Or aint there enough of them to justify offending the more conservative members of that faith.
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Socialist Resistance have organised to have motions to the Respect Conference defending LGBT rights. It will be interesting to see if the SWP support them.

http://respectcoalition.org/?ite=901
Resolution 54 - Lesbian, Gay, Transgender and Transgender (LGBT) rights - South East Essex

Conference regards it as unacceptable that our manifesto for the general election did not contain any reference to the defence of LGBT rights despite policy adopted at last year's AGM and contained in the founding statement. Conference resolves that in future our manifestos and principal election materials will explicitly defend such rights and call for an end to all discrimination against lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people.

Resolution 55 - Resolution on LGBT Rights - Bristol

Conference resolves that in future our manifestos and principle election materials will explicitly defend lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights.

Resolution 56 - LGBT rights - Lambeth

Conference regards it as regrettable that our manifesto for the general election did not contain any reference to the defense of LGBT rights despite policy adopted at last year's AGM and contained in the founding statement. Conference resolves that in future our manifestos and other materials laying out our main principles will explicitly defend such rights and call for an end to all to discrimination against lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people.

Resolution 57 - LGBT rights - Sandwell

Conference regards it as unacceptable that our manifesto for the general election did not contain any reference to the defence of LGBT rights despite policy adopted at last year's AGM and contained in the founding statement. Conference resolves that in future our manifestos and principle election materials will explicitly defend such rights and call for an end to all to discrimination against lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people.
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KeyboardJockey said:
I agree it will be VERY very interesting to see if the Swappies support such motions and policies.

Or will they fudge them to keep on side with religious conservatives.
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It's a coalition - people have different views.

Please don't assume everyone in Respect is either a card carrying SWP member or has a caricaturist propensity to capitulate to so-called muslim conservativism.
 
Fisher_Gate said:
It's a coalition - people have different views.

Please don't assume everyone in Respect is either a card carrying SWP member or has a caricaturist propensity to capitulate to so-called muslim conservativism.
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But all coalitions have to have a line in the sand about what is acceptable nd what is not and I've n ot seen any condemnation on here from SWP/Respect of religious leaders who won't condemn things like FGM or the oppression of LGBT people and LGBT muslims in particular.

I've been part of a coalitions within my own community with people who I may disagree with but we have a line in the sand which isthat everything sexual must be safe sane and consensual. For example I don't like the idea of nailing my bollocks to the floor but I will still sit down wit and support those who WANT to nail their bollocks to the floor. What I will not support is those who want to nail other peoples bollocks to the floor and oppress others. What the SWP/Respect coalition is doing is shifiting its focus to accomodate that point of view that is most likely to 'get the vote out' and unfortunately they are picking up support from those people who want to non consensually nail other peoples bollocks to the floor.

For me it is not a muslim / non muslim issue I would feel the same way if the SWP/Respect /(insert front organisation here) allied themselves with conservatively minded Christians, Hindus, Jews, Pagans or Quakers. It would give members of a section of one faith a disporportionate influence over the policy of the grouping as a whole.

I went down to East Ham a month or so ago (I hail from that area) and I saw the same sort of middle class lefties who would be selling Vocalist Shirker punting out Respect leaflets. That comment is not to criticise those people fromthe middle classes who discover a social concsicnece but to describe a sort of vanguardist mindset.

The sad fact is there was a reason they were out in force in East Ham it is because it has a muslim voter base that they can harvest and I felt sad about that as I felt tht the UK muslim and non muslim communities deserved better than to be treated as vote fodder.

You asked me to not treat everyone in Respect as a card carrying SWP member but from the evidence I see on here and from what I have experienced in my involvement in STWC it seems that the majority of non muslim membership of Respect is either SWP/UAF or one of the myriad other groupuscules that are associated with SWP.

It is a shame because there is a dire need of an alternative to what we've got in mainstream politics but I don't think the Swappies and their fronts are that alternative.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
I'd have more respect for Respect if they picked their Islamic allies more carefully.
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Thats jolly unfair you know. It's not as if there was a whole bunch of Muslim groups looking to ally with the SWP.

After all the more clued in 'community leaders' are deserting Labour and joining up with the Liberal Democrats. Or in Wales with Plaid Cymru come to that.

Meanwhile the largest proportion of Muslim youth are doing exactly the same as the rest of their generation and getting on with things. Which I regret to say means ignoring politics. But it also means they are increasngly assimilated and not susceptible to the influence of clerics and the guys who own the local grocery wholesale business. Which in Brum for example means Brum Central Mosque and the Yaqoob family.

Which really only left that minority of Muslim youth who are attempting to develop a British Muslim identity. Which means the MAB and which led to the alliance with Brum Central Mosque and Dr Naseem.

The good thing about all this is that as Muslim youth and Muslims in britain as a whole are ever more assimilated that Respect will be less and less able to use them as a springboard to national success. The best they will be able to do is win a few council seats and councils mean jack shit these days. I mean look at Lavelette all the poor sod can do is pass resolutions he can't actually get anything done. Which is what counts. Anyhow without a base in the councils and real influence Respect will wither and die in the long run.

The bad thing about all this is that the SWP are leading more than a few socialists down the garden path to the cliff edge. If only Rees and German would jump without forcing the rest of the lemming over the edge.
 
Respec' loses councillor in Tower Hamlets

"It's alright to rat, but you can't re-rat." Of course you can!

"Councillor Muhammad Ghulam Mortuza, who represents Spitalfields and Banglatown, resigned from Respect on Tuesday, just five months after he joined them from Labour."

East London Advertiser: Rebel councillor switches sides again
 
Yes, he must be the fastest re-ratter in the East!

Now poor old Oliur Rahman, Respec's properly elected councillor, will have to find someone else to stop him voting the wrong way by mistake. Still... I suppose that's what Social Workers are for.
 
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