Rees and Germain resign ?

[osterberg]

You are a member of the SWP are you not????

Therefore you are required to follow the line in last week's Party Notes:

1) work in "Left Alternative is to be "minimal", and as directed by Martin Smith and Charlie Kimber. Electoral activity will be minimal because it is "bruising".

Your "future endeavours" are as follows:

2) the "Public Services not Private Profit" campaign, which at present involves getting people to sign a "motherhood-and-apple-pie" petition (and no doubt trying to follow this up with a sale of Socialist Worker).

3) Convention of the Left type activity and intervening in the SP's CNWP if directed to.

4) supporting other left candidates in elections. So far this covers only the People's Party of Furness (aka the Socialist People's Party). Their next set of local elections are in 2012, but if there is a by-election called that they decide to stand in during the next 3 and a half years, you will be required to help canvass and you'd better find your way to a place called Barrow-in-Furness (accessible via train connections from Manchester and Preston http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/pdfs/Timetables/TT_Sept08_Cumb-Scots_web.pdf). There is a possibility that they may stand in the Cumbria County Council elections in June 2009, so you might find yourself called up for service then.

Whatever you do, you are not allowed to go to London to canvass for Respect in Tower Hamlets or Newham, nor are you allowed to go to Birmingham to canvass for Salma Yaqoob. These people are not "real" Left wingers because they are opposed to the SWP and therefore they are to be called "sectarian" at all times, despite actually being the only people in with a chance of winning seats at the next general election.


Is that a pretty fair summary?

Well no , it's your usual paranoid bollocks.

Look , the point I was trying to make before was that I'm an individual and not the swp personified that you seemed to presume.

As for not being "allowed" to vote or canvas for your version of "respect",do you seriously think I would want to ?

Doesn't it get hot under that tinfoil hat of yours' ?

 

[Bakunin]

In the unlikely event that the CNWP develops any legs, I think any reasonable observer would know exactly what form the SWP's 'intervention' would take as well.

They would, of course, try to ruin it on orders from the CC, either out of good old-fashioned sectarian malice or on some entirely spurious political grounds.

 

[TremulousTetra]

So you agree with getting rid of John Rees (and Lindsey German) because the last four years has been totally wrong all along?

But explain to me - why sack them? They were only following the CC and conference line were they not? Why not just downgrade the work and allow them to fade away like the Cheshire Cat?

WTF are you on? Your reading is getting as bad as Napoleon's.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Well no , it's your usual paranoid bollocks.

Look , the point I was trying to make before was that I'm an individual and not the swp personified that you seemed to presume.

As for not being "allowed" to vote or canvas for your version of "respect",do you seriously think I would want to ?

Doesn't it get hot under that tinfoil hat of yours' ?

no! But the sparks from those sectarian axes he is grinding does.

 

[TremulousTetra]

In the unlikely event that the CNWP develops any legs, I think any reasonable observer would know exactly what form the SWP's 'intervention' would take as well.

They would, of course, try to ruin it on orders from the CC, either out of good old-fashioned sectarian malice or on some entirely spurious political grounds.

Yup, and 911 was perpetrated by Martians.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

...

Look , the point I was trying to make before was that I'm an individual and not the swp personified that you seemed to presume.

...

That's the funniest thing I've read in the last 12 months.

SWP members are instructed what to do in Respect/Left List/Left Alternative, are they not?

Rob Hoveman, Kevin Ovenden and Nick Wrack were expelled for acting as individuals and being prepared to support decisions of Respect.

And John Rees was clearly instructed to resign, or face expulsion.

So tell me - if all members of the SWP are individuals, why were Rob, Kevin and Nick expelled?

And why exactly has John Rees been removed as National Secretary of Left Alternative, for doing nothing other than following the CC line to the letter?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

...

As for not being "allowed" to vote or canvas for your version of "respect",do you seriously think I would want to ?
...

Yes.

George Galloway is the most prominent anti-war MP in the country and his defeat in the general election would be a setback for the anti-war movement. All socialists should be supporting his re-election.

Dave Nellist and the SP walked out of the Socialist Alliance in a very sectarian manner, but that would not stop me canvassing for him if I could.

Both of them are certainly more important national left wing figures representing the working class, than ex-Labour parochialists in Barrow who have never stepped outside their town, and certainly never called for an end to the war in Iraq in their election materials and campaigns..

 

[Fisher_Gate]

WTF are you on? Your reading is getting as bad as Napoleon's.

Okay - clarify your position.

Answer A) or B), as follows:

A) "It was right for John Rees to resign as Left Alternative National Secretary. The Left Alternative is a disaster as was the end of Respect. The SWP are better out of it all, and as the person most associated with that period is John Rees he would be better to be out of the way, if the SWP is to grow through other activity over the next period. The SWP was therefore right to instruct him to resign"

B) John Rees followed the CC line through every twist and turn while Respect and latterly Left Alternative National Secretary. It is wrong to hold him culpable for SWP policy. The SWP CC was therefore wrong to instruct him to resign".

Or you can make up your own position?

 

[Bakunin]

Yup, and 911 was perpetrated by Martians.

Yes, obviously.

Not that the SWP have a long established record of being an unmitigated disaster for every activist group and organisation they've sunk their claws into.

And nowadays, they even seem to be wrecking themselves what with all this infighting on the CC. Personally, the sooner the SWP destroys itself the better for everyone else, IMHO.

 

[sonny61]

''From then on it was a short bus ride to Southwark where there were people of many colours on the bus gaily chatting in contrast to the sullen shaven haired youth who glared out of the window.''

Of course he must have been a member of C18, if he had shaven hair and was staring out of the window!
More than likely, he was afraid that German was going to speak to him.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Yes, obviously.

Not that the SWP have a long established record of being an unmitigated disaster for every activist group and organisation they've sunk their claws into.

And nowadays, they even seem to be wrecking themselves what with all this infighting on the CC. Personally, the sooner the SWP destroys itself the better for everyone else, IMHO.

Following yesterday's SWP national meeting, they appear to be now moving into a fully fledged faction fight between Rees/German and Smith/Kimber. Callinicos and Harman have firmly nailed their colours to the Smith flag. The end is nigh.

 

[Bakunin]

Following yesterday's SWP national meeting, they appear to be now moving into a fully fledged faction fight between Rees/German and Smith/Kimber. Callinicos and Harman have firmly nailed their colours to the Smith flag. The end is nigh.

So it looks as thought the battle lines are finally being drawn, then. I can't say I'm overly surprised as it seemed like it had been coming for a while.

 

[poster342002]

I take it all that stuff in The9thStep's post (#77) is a spoof?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

So it looks as thought the battle lines are finally being drawn, then. I can't say I'm overly surprised as it seemed like it had been coming for a while.

I am very surprised. The conference was only in January and more or less unanimously endorsed the split line. I thought they were on a heading for a WRP-style monolith, though I never cease to be amazed at the depths they have sunk to in the last 12 months.

Apparently there will be discussions continued in the branch meetings. I thought factions were banned outside conference periods, but obviously it's one rule for the CC and one for the rank and file membership. But I suppose you cannot bottle these things up forever. The last significant split in the SWP was back in the mid-1970s. And that begat the RCP's Red Front and all sorts of strange things so who knows what could happen.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Yes, obviously.

Not that the SWP have a long established record of being an unmitigated disaster for every activist group and organisation they've sunk their claws into.

Don't know whether noticed, there has been a downturn in working class success stories for a long long time, or is world history SWP's fault as well. 2+2 =5

 

[TremulousTetra]

Okay - clarify your position.

Answer A) or B), as follows:

A) "It was right for John Rees to resign as Left Alternative National Secretary. The Left Alternative is a disaster as was the end of Respect. The SWP are better out of it all, and as the person most associated with that period is John Rees he would be better to be out of the way, if the SWP is to grow through other activity over the next period. The SWP was therefore right to instruct him to resign"

B) John Rees followed the CC line through every twist and turn while Respect and latterly Left Alternative National Secretary. It is wrong to hold him culpable for SWP policy. The SWP CC was therefore wrong to instruct him to resign".

Or you can make up your own position?

C.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

C.

Thank you for being so expansive and erudite.

 

[poster342002]

Don't know whether noticed, there has been a downturn in working class success stories for a long long time, or is world history SWP's fault as well. 2+2 =5

Bu t ... but ... I thought this has Never Been A Better Time To Be A Socialist?

 

[durruti02]

Those extracts from her diary were brilliant.

he he thats class .. who wrote that .. you?

 

[mk12]

It'll be interesting to find out who people like John Molyneux will support.

 

[The39thStep]

I take it all that stuff in The9thStep's post (#77) is a spoof?

 

[nwnm]

Following yesterday's SWP national meeting, they appear to be now moving into a fully fledged faction fight between Rees/German and Smith/Kimber. Callinicos and Harman have firmly nailed their colours to the Smith flag. The end is nigh.

Priceless - your feverish little brain now sees faction fights where there are no factions, (similar stuff was said a few years ago when Chris Bambery replaced Chris Harman as editor of Socialist Worker, and when John Molyneux tried and failed to get elected to the CC).

Now if you want to whatch the beginnings of a faction fight, have a look here

http://brizblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/advancing-backwards/

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Priceless - your feverish little brain now sees faction fights where there are no factions, (similar stuff was said a few years ago when Chris Bambery replaced Chris Harman as editor of Socialist Worker, and when John Molyneux tried and failed to get elected to the CC).

Now if you want to whatch the beginnings of a faction fight, have a look here

http://brizblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/advancing-backwards/

Welcome back! I thought you'd done a runner now that your former number 1 and 2 heroes have become persona non grata.

Presumably you think it was okay to force John Rees to resign?

But for what reason - can you explain what he did wrong?

And why is there no tribute to Rees and German's sterling work in Left List, and before that in Respect, in this week's Socialist Worker, if everything in the garden is soooooooo rosy?

As for the link, this is excellent stuff. A debate between different views. It's no wonder you struggle to recognise it.

 

[Bakunin]

A debate between different views. It's no wonder you struggle to recognise it.

The Swappie hivebrain, yesterday:

'Different... views...'

'Views perhaps incompatible with the CC line...'

'DOES NOT COMPUTE, DOES NOT COMPUTE, DOES NOT COMPUTE...'

'THOUGHTCRIME!

BURN THE HERETICS!

EXTERMINATE!

EXTERMINATE!

EXTERMINATE!'

Cue sounds of burned out electronics and sparks flying.

 

[nwnm]

As for the link, this is excellent stuff. A debate between different views. It's no wonder you struggle to recognise it.

Lets see…. Different views, the debate in respect urinal so far in a nutshell….



“ Napoleon was reputed to have a very small penis.
Andy Newman also has a tiny appendage- called Mark Perryman.
Coincidence?

“Well done Jay.
You have failed to actually adress what i actualy arguied, but have also reduced the level of the debate to personal insult. The remark above about mark p is disgraceful. Are yu acually interested in building Respect, or do you want to drive people who disagree with you out?

“Your sense of outrage is rather disingenuous as far as I’m concerned, given some of the personal abuse posted on your own blog."

(all quotes taken from that link btw)

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Lets see…. Different views, the debate in respect urinal so far in a nutshell….



“ Napoleon was reputed to have a very small penis.
Andy Newman also has a tiny appendage- called Mark Perryman.
Coincidence?

“Well done Jay.
You have failed to actually adress what i actualy arguied, but have also reduced the level of the debate to personal insult. The remark above about mark p is disgraceful. Are yu acually interested in building Respect, or do you want to drive people who disagree with you out?

“Your sense of outrage is rather disingenuous as far as I’m concerned, given some of the personal abuse posted on your own blog."

(all quotes taken from that link btw)

Don't be a plonker. How about referring to the content of the two articles? Unlike every SWP-controlled blog in existance, these are unmoderated and people can say what they like in response.

And you absolutely have not a word to say about why John Rees and Lindsey German have resigned? Have you not noticed what the title of the thread is?

 

[nwnm]

Don't be a plonker. How about referring to the content of the two articles? Unlike every SWP-controlled blog in existance, these are unmoderated and people can say what they like in response.

And you absolutely have not a word to say about why John Rees and Lindsey German have resigned? Have you not noticed what the title of the thread is?

The articles read like 2 bald blokes arguing over a comb. I never pass comment on internal decisions of the SWP on external websites or in external publications

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I never pass comment on internal decisions of the SWP.

Edited for accuracy - Louis MacNeice

 

[Bakunin]

I never pass comment on internal decisions of the SWP on external websites or in external publications

You don't have to.

Here's the Weekly Worker's take on the debacle:

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/737/index.html

It probably come in a laminated, wipe clean cover for all the seasoned Swappie-watchers out there, especially those who'd like to see the SWP simply disappear up its own arse.

 

[mk12]

How did they find out about the ins and outs of CC meetings?