Redundancy with your company going bust

[StoneRoad]

That's rotten timing and a bad situation ohmyliver - I've been through similar (came back from a fortnight away in Bialystok) to find that I was the only employee left that wasn't a director ... and lasted until the end of the week. Luckily, I did get paid that month. But all the rest came from the RPO. However, I got a number of items in lieu of notice - but had had several items stolen from my desk whilst I was abroad. Keep the laptop.

 

[existentialist]

Be aware that you're on dodgy legal ground if you refuse to return company property like laptops. You just aren't allowed to set off assets you may hold against what the company owes you

I'd quietly hold on to it, though, and only return it when I was specifically asked to, because - especially if the entire staff has been laid off - they're not really going to know who's got what.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Be aware that you're on dodgy legal ground if you refuse to return company property like laptops. You just aren't allowed to set off assets you may hold against what the company owes you

I'd quietly hold on to it, though, and only return it when I was specifically asked to, because - especially if the entire staff has been laid off - they're not really going to know who's got what.

Just tell them it was sent back in the post, and then blame Royal Mail for losing it. But more seriously, I wonder if ohmyliver could insist on the administrator collecting it - why should they make the trip to the former workplace given the situation? The administrator might not bother following it up.

 

[ohmyliver]

Be aware that you're on dodgy legal ground if you refuse to return company property like laptops. You just aren't allowed to set off assets you may hold against what the company owes you

I'd quietly hold on to it, though, and only return it when I was specifically asked to, because - especially if the entire staff has been laid off - they're not really going to know who's got what.

ahh. Everything's asset tagged, so I presume they know whose got what. I think I may say I have x and what's the 'nominal' price for x.

 

[existentialist]

ahh. Everything's asset tagged, so I presume they know whose got what. I think I may say I have x and what's the 'nominal' price for x.

I like farmerbarleymow's solution. "Yes, it's here, so come and collect it. Office hours only, I'll need 48 hours' notice, as I'll probably be at a job interview. Or I can deliver it, for which there will be a £50 delivery charge. "

 

[equationgirl]

ahh. Everything's asset tagged, so I presume they know whose got what. I think I may say I have x and what's the 'nominal' price for x.

You would think that but you would be surprised that many assets are just listed on a spreadsheet held by one person in the department , who hasn't updated it since they started in 2009.

Keep it until they pay up, then ask them to collect it. Also get a receipt.

 

[MickiQ]

Just tell them it was sent back in the post, and then blame Royal Mail for losing it. But more seriously, I wonder if ohmyliver could insist on the administrator collecting it - why should they make the trip to the former workplace given the situation? The administrator might not bother following it up.

They're entitled to it back it is their property but they can't insist you take it back to the office, collecting it is their responsibility. Tell them to come and get it (and as been pointed out get a receipt for it)

 

[Teaboy]

They're entitled to it back it is their property but they can't insist you take it back to the office, collecting it is their responsibility. Tell them to come and get it (and as been pointed out get a receipt for it)

Yes and also OP, ask them to prove you were actually given one in the first place. I've been given loads of company shit over the years and rarely have to sign for it. This shit is about to get legalistic, play them at their own game.

 

[RubyToogood]

Sorry to hear this. It happened to me a couple of years ago. It was only after I saw a video of Jeremy Corbyn ffs talking about "that old trick where companies go bust in order to shed all their liabilities and then mysteriously start up again immediately under a slightly different name" that I realised the company knew what they were doing when they let us all go owing us a month's wages.

We got some redundancy from the government rather late, and I kept getting tax back on that for ages somehow. When the business was finally wound up all assets were mysteriously eaten up by the administrators. That is another massive scam that nobody tells you about.

The company are indeed still going under a very subtly different name, with all the family members keeping their jobs.

I would be surprised if your second hand laptop is worth enough to get excited about.

 

[RubyToogood]

In short my advice is: don't bother about the laptop; don't expect anything when the company is wound up; fill in the government forms; have a nice rest over Christmas and then start jobhunting.

Also stay in touch with colleagues. It is a somewhat traumatic thing to go through, having the carpet whipped out from under your feet.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Be aware that you're on dodgy legal ground if you refuse to return company property like laptops. You just aren't allowed to set off assets you may hold against what the company owes you

I'd quietly hold on to it, though, and only return it when I was specifically asked to, because - especially if the entire staff has been laid off - they're not really going to know who's got what.

Tell them you'd love to bring it back but you can't swing the bus fare to the office right now.

 

[existentialist]

Tell them you'd love to bring it back but you can't swing the bus fare to the office right now.

*cough* taxi. You will be transporting an important company asset, for which you are liable. You can't take any risks.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

*cough* taxi. You will be transporting an important company asset, for which you are liable. You can't take any risks.

Just attach a sticker with the address of the administrator on the laptop (no packaging), and pop it in the nearest postbox. I'm sure it would arrive unscathed...

 

[equationgirl]

I seem to recall a software company touted as Scotland's answer to Microsoft went bust around the turn of the 21st century, and the workers kept their very expensive state of the art laptops in lieu of payments from the administrator.

The administrator was displeased.

 

[donkyboy]

I'm bumping this thread, because the company that work(ed) for went under on Monday.

We're not getting last month's wages, nor redundancy/notice etc, been asked to return company laptops etc.

many many years ago-around mid 1990s, my brother worked for an IT firm as an electrical engineer. After he was made redundant due to the company going through a big restructure, he kept the Toshiba laptop they gave him as part of his job. the firm had forgotten about it. It was a good spec lappy for its time....

 

[SpookyFrank]

I seem to recall a software company touted as Scotland's answer to Microsoft went bust around the turn of the 21st century, and the workers kept their very expensive state of the art laptops in lieu of payments from the administrator.

The administrator was displeased.

Administration is a fucking racket. Most likely their displeasure in this case was because they planned to sell the kit, give themselves the money by way of 'fees' and pay the staff diddly fuck all.

 

[ohmyliver]

The latest news is that they've been brought out by one of their investors, and will keep the name, and the CEO, but be a 'new' company. This is presumably legal, and they won't have to pay proper redundancy etc to former staff of the old company?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The latest news is that they've been brought out by one of their investors, and will keep the name, and the CEO, but be a 'new' company. This is presumably legal, and they won't have to pay proper redundancy etc to former staff of the old company?

in those circumstances, the new company tends not to be liable for the debts of the old company. although the authorities can occasionally ask awkward questions where a 'phoenix company' is being used to side-step debts. more here.

have you already been made redundant, or is the new company keeping staff on and keeping the business on as a going concern?

if you / others have already been laid off, then i would have thought the government scheme for claiming redundancy pay would still apply - you wouldn't have any claim against the new company which is a separate legal entity.

if you have continued working without a break, then think that it's continuous employment, you transfer to the new company on existing terms and conditions - and length of service for employment rights and possible future redundancy pay, not as new 'day one' employees. (The set of rules that covers this is called TUPE - there's a guide to them on TSSA's website (the first one that came up) here.) If this is the case, then be bloody careful if they try to foist new employment contracts on you.

Not quite sure what the position would be for someone who has had a break in employment but gets taken on (again) by new company. Gut feeling is you would still be entitled to redundancy pay (from government scheme if need be) in relation to the old employer, then would be starting as new employee with new company.

All of the above subject to the usual disclaimers that i'm not a lawyer or anything resembling one, and it's a while since i was a union rep. would suggest talking to your union if that's an option, or maybe ACAS advice line.

 

[MickiQ]

The latest news is that they've been brought out by one of their investors, and will keep the name, and the CEO, but be a 'new' company. This is presumably legal, and they won't have to pay proper redundancy etc to former staff of the old company?

"Proper" redundancy is the statutory minimum anything above that is either down to company policy and/or a negotiated agreement if there is a recognised union. There is no legal right to it.
The only likely difference to you is who pays your redundancy them or the govt scheme. Any other debtors will just loose what they owe.

 

[ohmyliver]

well, yes, I was more referring to the december wages, and payment in lieu of notice.

We were all laid off, the government has paid redundancy, and december wages, and pay in lieu notice period, which is significantly less than if we had got dec wages and notice period as pay. I wasn't holding my breath that we'd get the difference made up by the new incarnation of the company, just a bit wtf that the company can be sold to a creditor, set up as a new company and re-employ the CEO, and keep the name.

 

[MickiQ]

well, yes, I was more referring to the december wages, and payment in lieu of notice.

We were all laid off, the government has paid redundancy, and december wages, and pay in lieu notice period, which is significantly less than if we had got dec wages and notice period as pay. I wasn't holding my breath that we'd get the difference made up by the new incarnation of the company, just a bit wtf that the company can be sold to a creditor, set up as a new company and re-employ the CEO, and keep the name.

If the government scheme has paid out then the company was insolvent and any debts to the staff have been settled.
This is 'legally' an all-new company, since the old one has gone bust, the name is now free for someone else to register it and the CEO is like everyone else free to find another job at a company that just 'happens' to have the same name as one where he used to work.
Nothing dodgy about that nosiree and shipments of unicorn shit will soon resume.
Sadly this is legal and far from uncommon.

 

[ohmyliver]

so what's the legal status of equipment which was owned by the previous company, but hasn't been returned yet by my collegues.

 

[belboid]

so what's the legal status of equipment which was owned by the previous company, but hasn't been returned yet by my collegues.

If it was part of the inventory of stock 'sold' to the new company, then it belongs to the new company. Whether they would find it in their interests to bother chasing up is another matter.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

so what's the legal status of equipment which was owned by the previous company, but hasn't been returned yet by my collegues.

The new company owns the machines if they were part of the transfer. How interested the new company is in recovering them isn't so much about the hardware - used laptops aren't worth very much - but they may have concerns about proprietary data stored locally on them.

 

[ohmyliver]

The IP has been sold to the new company. I've just spotted a job lot of the old company's laptops/desktops/monitors/printers up for online auction in early Feb.