Red Green and Black Alliance

[tbaldwin]

then you are as delusional as you are egotistical.

The anti-pol tax movement was successful precisely because 'left' ideas were take up and made real by 'ordinary' (if we can use that term as shorthand...) people - not anarchists or militants.

The Militants understand that - its the 'how and why' they were able to play the leading role as part of that movement that they did. Your statement contradicts everything you claim to be critisising about the 'other' side. And you are a fool for doing so.

You make a big issue of your many years membership of the SWP - there is no need to because the continuing use of their mistaken methods shows it clear enough

Setting up 'support' groups will not bring about the workers self control you talk about - not on its own or as a replacement for mass organisation

I think the truth is that both Militant and lots of anarchos did some really good stuff around the poll tax. And both made mistakes.....

But for ONCE both connected with people on the basis of the self interest
of the majority.

They connected in a way that the establishment parties never could have done. They seized the unique opportunity of the time.

The better thing to do now rather than argue about that, is to look at the opportunity that the bankers crisis/recession has to again connect with the self interest of the majority.

 

[durruti02]

I think the truth is that both Militant and lots of anarchos did some really good stuff around the poll tax. And both made mistakes.....

But for ONCE both connected with people on the basis of the self interest
of the majority.

They connected in a way that the establishment parties never could have done. They seized the unique opportunity of the time.

The better thing to do now rather than argue about that, is to look at the opportunity that the bankers crisis/recession has to again connect with the self interest of the majority.

yes

 

[JimW]

It's been to the detriment of Trotskyist groups that they've managed to sustain organisations for decades - adds to the perception of cult-like behaviour at odds with reality and thus means when you do intervene in mass movements it can bring as many negatives as positives (of course there are plenty of the latter too). The fetishisation of the party only underlines the danger of the kind of bureaucracies Leninism will create if it ever succeeds.
Should learn from the anarchist movement and have the guts to come together and fall apart (rather than just splitting) like an assemblage of street-drinkers. Few core groups producing your theory and propaganda, only organisations that should last are those of the class as a whole. Organisational skills and class heritage to be passed on through praxis with revolutionaries moving like kung-fu Kwai Chang Caines through the dank wilderness of post-industrial struggle. When you can take the Socialist Worker from my hand, grasshopper...

 

[Rod Sleeves]

I think the truth is that both Militant and lots of anarchos did some really good stuff around the poll tax. And both made mistakes.....

But for ONCE both connected with people on the basis of the self interest
of the majority.

They connected in a way that the establishment parties never could have done. They seized the unique opportunity of the time.

The better thing to do now rather than argue about that, is to look at the opportunity that the bankers crisis/recession has to again connect with the self interest of the majority.

Yes, a good post on a mostly shit and pointless thread.

Stop arguing and start organising around debt, repossessions, bailiffs, rents, etc etc...

Actually quite a lot of people, both trots and anarchists, and others are already doing that, it's just sadly too little at the moment, but it's never too late to remember self interest as the motivating factor in mass working class action whether in the workplace or the community.