Red Green and Black Alliance
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Weirdo.
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Possibly Wobblies, although I doubt all would consider themselves Anarchist/Lib Left.
In theory internationally SWP/IST could have tangible links with Anarchists through say Anti Capitalist movement.
Heard a rumour that they have close links to new French Anti Capitalist Electorial Front, but wouldn't take it as Gospel!
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Are anarchists involved in the Wigan Peoples Allaince?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I suspect that's true of a minority, and I can see why you'd like to quantify it as "most", but the truth tends to lie in the area of many anarchists having been members of political organisations of the left at one time or another and having become slightly disenchanted by the fact that many of those organisations (or at least their power hierarchies) tend to centralise power, enter into unfortunate alliances and do little to advance the causes that their members hold dear, and not wanting more of the same.
The only political organisations that retain my grudging respect are the Socialist Party and the IWCA, as they at least engage in meaningful local activism. The rest of them I'd strain to find the energy and urine to piss on if they were burning.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
it's just my experience of most of the people I meet who call themselves 'anarchists', i doubt they have seriously thought through exactly what it means - beyond no gods, no masters, fuck the swp - and just use it as a description of why they don't get invovled in owt beyond lifestylist tosh.
Freedom Press
Spies for Peace
The Commitee of 100
International Times/Oz
Stonehenge Free Festival
UK Traveller/festival scene
Mass squatting movement in the 70's and founding of ASS
Class War
Stop the City
Road Protest Movement
Anti CJA movement
UK rave scene
Reclaim the Streets
J18
Mayday
DSEi
London squatters scene/Hackney Squatters etc
Anarchist bookfair
Social Centres movement
Climate Camp
LCAP/Claimants Union/BIT and other anti-poverty campaigns
Sanction busting in Iraq
Seattle and the anti-globalization movement
Reclaim the Future
Vestas/Visteon/Lewisham Bridge solidarity
No Borders
all just off the top of my head
what you got?
the point being that anarchists have organised siginificantly more interesting and high profile events than swappies could ever dream of and all of the things listed were largely organised by anarchists, with some liberal hangers on and a few paper sellers turning up to try and get some cred
youve been hanging on our coat tails for the last fifty years
feel free to carry on
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
thing is - thats complete bullshit. And obviously so if you are going to try and claim the Committee of 100.
The squatting 'scene' (bleugh) was actually 'led' by ex-squaddies and CPers at a time when there were virtually no anarchists at all, and later by jeremy Corbyns brother.
To try and claim vesta's & visteon solidarity for the anarchists is utter self-delusion.
Then you've got some lifestylist stuff, lovely but hardly world changing.
LCAP???? you goota be kidding - are there many anarchists in the local unions and churches?
Seattle? Envoronmentalists of all kinds, some trots, some anarchos', some union bods. Hardly 'led' by anarchists tho
Class War, well I'll give you that one. Well blow me, trots didnt set up an anarchist organisation, i wonder why not?
the only way you can claim they are all part of an anarchist 'milieu' is if you say that any kind of direct action is part of that millieu, but that is simply untrue.
Put briefly - your list is rubbish.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
list with explicitly anarchist organisations, lifestylist groups, and organisations where non-anarchs played a/the major role omitted:
and that's being generous.
and that's being generous.
Seattle was largely organised by the PGA and other grass roots groups, with some training coming from RTS - you may dismiss RTS and the road protest movement as lifestylist rubbish, funny that, i remember the paper sellers trying to crawl all over it at the time desperate to get a piece of the action
there were lots of anarchists involved in the squatting scene in the 70's, notably jim from ass, the situationists groups, heathcote williams and many more
and the social centres continue today, run along anarchist principles, has the SWP ever managed anything like Ramparts - no thought not
and im not claiming visteon and vestas for anarchists exclusively, but they were on the scene, on the ball, and as ever, you lot turned up after the main event desperate to cash in as ever
sure it's not as simple as people signing up to the principles of a manifesto, anarchism's not like that
the point is that we can put more people on the streets are more relevant and have a reach way beyond a narrow bunch of placard waving trots
take No Borders as an example, if you were facing deportation who would you rather turn up, a bunch of anarchists who'll use direct action if necessary to physically block the deportation
or some trots who'll stick yer name on a banner and march round with it whilst youre being tortured back in your home country
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
lol, you really are deluded.
You seem not to have noticed that i didnt include RTS amongst the 'lifestylists' - why you think i would I can only guess
As for the rest - way hey, 'jim', wel lthats proof positive. As I said, well and trulyt preceeded by thousands of others - most of whom were not really political, but many of whom were CP.
Visteon & vestas - what you wrote is very very simply rubbish, there were trots (and anarchs and greens) there from day one, fibbing doesnt really help you make your case.
No Borders - again, many other trots involved in it so not the greatest example, but even if we accept it. it's a very poor example. NB do some damn good stuff, but blocking actual deportations is not one of them (certainly not locally anyway). That is done far more effectively by various other groups with boring old fashioned letter writing and phone calls - not as sexy as being 'on the street' but actually effective. One of those groups is actually CDAS - set up by Workers Power and now run by the SWP. Shite, but true.
When did you become an anarchist btw? Always thought you were a trot.
You seem not to have noticed that i didnt include RTS amongst the 'lifestylists' - why you think i would I can only guess
As for the rest - way hey, 'jim', wel lthats proof positive. As I said, well and trulyt preceeded by thousands of others - most of whom were not really political, but many of whom were CP.
Visteon & vestas - what you wrote is very very simply rubbish, there were trots (and anarchs and greens) there from day one, fibbing doesnt really help you make your case.
No Borders - again, many other trots involved in it so not the greatest example, but even if we accept it. it's a very poor example. NB do some damn good stuff, but blocking actual deportations is not one of them (certainly not locally anyway). That is done far more effectively by various other groups with boring old fashioned letter writing and phone calls - not as sexy as being 'on the street' but actually effective. One of those groups is actually CDAS - set up by Workers Power and now run by the SWP. Shite, but true.
When did you become an anarchist btw? Always thought you were a trot.
so you wouldn't include International Times in that, or would you consider that lifestylist, and whilst the rave/free festy movement may be lifestylist now it wasnt so much then
but even with your list, still pretty impressive
j18
class war
reclaim the streets
road protest movement
spies for peace
social centres
all of which have not only been front page news but have actually influenced peoples lives and the direction of left and mainstream politics
like i said, what you got
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
The point is the most ACTIVE would consider themselves under the umbrella of the Anarchist tendency...
No point discussing with robotrots... they have papers to sell and party lines to OBEY....
tbh: I was surprised to see them on Indy Irl again, their members were ordered not to post... they is up to something for sure!
No point discussing with robotrots... they have papers to sell and party lines to OBEY....
tbh: I was surprised to see them on Indy Irl again, their members were ordered not to post... they is up to something for sure!
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
class war? bugger off! Anarchists set up an anarchist organisation...well I think trots have managed to do the same quite a few times (albeit trot organisations obviously) 
How have social centres actually influence most peoples lives? Barely at all (which isnt to say they are a bad thing, just not that influential). Not honestly sure how influential Spies for Peace were either.
Anti Nazi League
Rock Against Racism
Anti Poll Tax Unions
vesta solidarity (
)
Stop the War
Pluto Press
various anti-deportation groups & campaigns
The Redskins
A couple of them even achieved what they set out to!
How have social centres actually influence most peoples lives? Barely at all (which isnt to say they are a bad thing, just not that influential). Not honestly sure how influential Spies for Peace were either.
Anti Nazi League
Rock Against Racism
Anti Poll Tax Unions
vesta solidarity (
)Stop the War
Pluto Press
various anti-deportation groups & campaigns
The Redskins
A couple of them even achieved what they set out to!
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
the most active what? That means nowt
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
says it all.. keep going to your meetings n discussing state cap... we will call you when we need you to lead the glorious revolution..
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
so you can't answer the question.
the most active what, where? In most of the campaigns I'm involved in there are anarchists, but it would be very far from the truth to say they were the most active.
Obviously if you are going to limit your reference group to those in social centres then you're probably right, but that would be to miss the point quite stupendously
the most active what, where? In most of the campaigns I'm involved in there are anarchists, but it would be very far from the truth to say they were the most active.
Obviously if you are going to limit your reference group to those in social centres then you're probably right, but that would be to miss the point quite stupendously
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I'm frankly staggered at your patience here.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
every now and again I like to show I can be reasonable and patient.
I'm sure it wont last tho
There is a more general point as well tho, I often hear someone from group X say to someone from group Y 'you lot aren't involved in this, so you have no right to comment' - when what they mean is Group Y aren't involved in that specific campaign group. I heard that thrown at SP members & anarchists about STWC quite regularly (even before local STWC groups all but disappeared). It really is quite self-deluding.
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
As you said the most active what? that means nowt
wtf would i be bothered to answer a stupid question, if it means NOWT
if activism means NOWT...
feck it cant be bothered...
wtf would i be bothered to answer a stupid question, if it means NOWT
if activism means NOWT...
feck it cant be bothered...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Exactly my experience. I have only ever known a handful who did not fit the above.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Another point in the favour of anarchism - most self-described trots had a similarly shallow grasp but instead of leaving well alone joined bollocks sects run by sociology lecturers and by inflating the influence of these did their part in the poisoning the chances of genuine working class politics. Rather knit-your-own bullshit than rote-learned spartery.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Interesting as one of Bradfords leading anarchists became a social work lecturer
JimW
支那暗杀团
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I doubt if there will be that much debate between the two. SWP people rarely post to Indymedia and even more rarely actually participate in the debates there. Nearly all of the comments have been by people in neither group or SP people and that's the way it'll stay, I suspect.
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