Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
Join the Wobblies.
Recruiting Union Members
- Thread starter KeyboardJockey
- Start date
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Selling the union on the basis that it'll help ambitious corporate-ladderclimbers obtain skills needed to crawl up the greasy pole doesn't strike me as a way of engendering a sense of solidarity.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Most workplaces in my field (clearicla admin) are liek this. There's no point inmoving as the problem is endemic.
No - everyone will respond in the way they always do: individualistic, management-arselicking and ultra-comptetitiveness. Wildebeests never collectively turn on the mangy jackal that's chasing them: they just run and hope it catches the ones least able to keep up and ahead.
Bollocks. I spent years and years "trying to overcome any barriers" to no avail. In a lot of workplaces it simply cannot be done.
Looby
Well-Known Member
Too man scabs and not enough tails in my place
You're one of those scabs you fucking hypocrite.
Do it in a union that is recognised ffs.
That is hilarious, you should be a comedian.
You have no concept of solidarity whatsoever. If you did, you wouldn't be crossing pickets and trying to divide your workforce any further.
Go ahead, recruit for the GMB. I can't wait for the members you have recruited (if any) to find out they have absolutely zero backing and support when the shit hits the fan at work. They will fucking string you up but then if they are stupid enough to follow you to an unrecognised union then that's their lookout.
You have had some fantastic advice from guiniveretoo and others and have consistently ignored it. You just like fucking moaning.
You are the worst advert for trade unionism so I'm glad you have resigned from PCS they don't need idiots like you poisoning from within.
It makes my fucking blood boil reading your constant bullshit about PCS.
You don't seem to grasp the simple fact that a union is only as strong as it's members so if all the members in your branch are like you then there's your problem.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Guineveretoo - what's your branch?
I'm in X19 but probably not for much longer...
I'm in X19 but probably not for much longer...
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I am in one of the "TUPS" Branches of the GMB, because I am a trade union official
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
failure342002 can't do it, therefore it is impossible
what genius logic.just fuck off, there's a good boy.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Ah right. Westminster? Holborn? NW London? I know a few people in the latter two.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
One of those three, but I am afraid I am not saying any more, because I've already been attacked on these boards for what I do for a living, and don't want to encourage such behaviour by giving away any more of where I work!
I do, however, know people who are in all three branches, so it's quite possible we have people in common
dennisr
the acceptable face
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
failure342002 can't do it, therefore it is impossible
Neither has anybody else managed it in places like the ones I've seen.
dennisr
the acceptable face
"trolls are us"
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
so its westminster then
I am intrigued - why do you say that?
I suspect it's because you don't understand why I was attacked. I have been attacked because I work for a trade union. I haven't worked out why that makes me the enemy, but there you go.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
Oh, do go away. You are getting boring!
I reckon I have been in a lot more workplaces than you have, and my experiences are quite different.
Hmm, I seem to recall having said this before. You are making me boring by being repetitive, too!
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Don't worry, not going to try and expose you! My reticence about revealing my identity has more to do with the GMB rulebook and Kenny's goon squad than anything else...
dennisr
the acceptable face
I am intrigued - why do you say that?
I suspect it's because you don't understand why I was attacked. I have been attacked because I work for a trade union. I haven't worked out why that makes me the enemy, but there you go.
i'm only messing with you - you are not my enemy mate.
yep, i've seen the rubbish they tried to say about you - but thats all it was rubbish, trying to grab a straws to cover their own nakedness
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
Yeah, but the trouble is that it was popular posters attacking me, with apparent support from others. I so wanted to reveal what the attackers did for a living, but couldn't without being hypocritical, so kept quiet (actually, I left the boards for a while), in the hope that sense would prevail
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
KBJ - Sorry but you are wasting your time. If people are disillousinoned with the recognised unions in your workplace why should they join another union that is also run by untrustworthy nest feathering bureaucrats but with the added problem of not being recognised?
Unlike some of the posters on here and their kneejerk defence of dead in the water trade unionism, I fully sympathise with the idea that recruiting apathetic workers to unions that have obviously failed is a hard slog, and that even if you succeed they will find themselves sold down the river at a later date - and despite what others might claim the more your workplace stands up for itself the more militant it is, the more the union will try and do deals with management, to keep their recognition agreement.
The only way to do it is to organise an informal meeting for as many workers as possible, prefferably in a local pub - irrispective of what union they are already in, or if they are in none. Get people to go round and share their grievences about the workplace (be prepared to listen to a load of moaning about their workmates but thst's the way it is) and then come up with a list of ideas that they MIGHT be prepared to organise around, it should probably be demands that are relatively modest and easy to win in the short term - get a few victories under your belt first then start aiming higher as confidence grows. Use tactics that don't cost those involved money - like strikes - use work to rule, phone in sick days, intimidation of scabs and grasses, breakages etc and whatever else may come to mind.
Essentially you will be building your own "union" that is genuinely independent and controlled by it's members. In the short to medium term it is best for those currently in recognised unions to remain in them, as they can provde legal support and facility time - both of which are very useful.
This won't be easy, and will take a lot of work and time just to build up some basic trust - but what you are currently doing is a waste of time. Sorry.
Unlike some of the posters on here and their kneejerk defence of dead in the water trade unionism, I fully sympathise with the idea that recruiting apathetic workers to unions that have obviously failed is a hard slog, and that even if you succeed they will find themselves sold down the river at a later date - and despite what others might claim the more your workplace stands up for itself the more militant it is, the more the union will try and do deals with management, to keep their recognition agreement.
The only way to do it is to organise an informal meeting for as many workers as possible, prefferably in a local pub - irrispective of what union they are already in, or if they are in none. Get people to go round and share their grievences about the workplace (be prepared to listen to a load of moaning about their workmates but thst's the way it is) and then come up with a list of ideas that they MIGHT be prepared to organise around, it should probably be demands that are relatively modest and easy to win in the short term - get a few victories under your belt first then start aiming higher as confidence grows. Use tactics that don't cost those involved money - like strikes - use work to rule, phone in sick days, intimidation of scabs and grasses, breakages etc and whatever else may come to mind.
Essentially you will be building your own "union" that is genuinely independent and controlled by it's members. In the short to medium term it is best for those currently in recognised unions to remain in them, as they can provde legal support and facility time - both of which are very useful.
This won't be easy, and will take a lot of work and time just to build up some basic trust - but what you are currently doing is a waste of time. Sorry.
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
Is he a scab then? I've no idea...
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Good post. I accept what you mean about it would be better if it was the recognised union. However, when you have staff resigning from the recognised union because they are disgusted with it and cannot see any way of changing it then that indicates a systemic problem with the recognised union. If I felt that I could have worked with the recognised union and if I felt that I and my colleauges would have had backing and if we felt that the union would have recognised that there are special circumstances to this particular workplace instead of just 'parroting a party line' then I would have jumped at the chance. But it wasn't like that.
I can see both sides of the coin on this issue. I can see the value of remaining within an established union but I can also see the value in accepting that the world has changed and people do now see unions as 'product' and if you want to engage with people then that has to be taken on board. Not an ideal situation but one that is workable.
I don't think people should leave the recognised union but neither do I think that people should be left without grievance cover etc. Management love non unionised workplaces for very good reasons.
I might be on a hiding to nothing but surely its better to make an effort than say 'I'm all right Jack' and keep my head down and suck management arse?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
KBJ = excuses for tried and failed service unionism
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
The old style 'solidarity' unionism isn't exactly in rude health at the moment either is it?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
I'm not aware of that designation but the organising model is doing rather better in areas where it is being tried.
'Credit card' unionism has overseen the demise of the trade unions over the last few decades.
'Credit card' unionism has overseen the demise of the trade unions over the last few decades.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
I can see where you are coming from and some unions did go a bit too overboard for the service model.
But I think the main problem is that many workers don't even consider joining unions as they see them as not relevant and then you have to, especially with older workers, have to consider peoples own negative experiences with unions (esp from back in the days of the closed shop), and the constant 'management good/unions bad' chorus from much of the media.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No one denies that there are problems with union recruitment, and retention. But it's also been obvious over the last few years that the only way falling membership has been turned round has been by fighting. PCS is one of the few unions to actually grow recently - despite cuts in the numbers of staff eligible to join. And why might they be growing? because they are fighting for the vast majority of their members. It's a story repeated across the unions, when they do actually take action. By fighting, we show we are relevant, and we recruit.
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
I understand and appreciate all this - but the GMB will not be any better, their internal culture is among the worst in my experience.
This is why when the recognised union lets you down or sells you out you need to build your own alternative that can fill the gaps - it's hardly keeping your head down and saying "I'm alright jack".
Service unionism is a symptom of the very failings that lead unions to sell out their members so trying to recruit on that basis is a dead end.
You have to explain to people that solidarity is self interest - that collective bargaining, and collective action, when done properly and not mediated through a layer of fulltime union bureaucrats with their own interests is the only way to improve your pay and conditions.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
what do you do in the meantime, whilst your alternative union is being built up tho biff? I'm a dual carder myself, and agree with trying to build a genuine workers member led body. But whilst we try and get more than a dozen people across the whole of Sheffield, we need to be in a 'traditional' union too - and to make that work as best we can. After all, the bureaucrats can only shaft us if we let them.
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
I'm actually not a dual carder at the moment
, I'm simply in Unite - personally I would argue for staying in the recognised union and using and abusing everything you can get from it - while building your own alternative.Similar threads
