Records that people rave about that are actually shit

Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by ska invita, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree I care not for the wealth of Gyges

    I interpret it as 'records that are or were unquestioned critical if not commercial successes which never really split people into fans and not fans but which you yourself have never liked but perhaps didn't feel brave enough to say so. Sacred cows of popular music in other words."

    The thread title is snappier.
    mojo pixy and rutabowa like this.
  2. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    how did either elvis or the stones rip off black musicians?
    Elvis grew up with blues and r&B,alongside bluegrass,folk and country (the music of people who were dirt poor regardless of skin colour) - these musics flowed in and out of each other up and down the mississippi delta. Presley grew up with this stuff - it was arguably his music as much as anyone else's.

    The stones - and the british blues bands generally - utterly venerated the american blues musicians. They took it as a the base plate - then it was mixed with musical naivety and cheap speed and voila - rock music was born.
    When they toured the US, the stones insisted that the likes of John lee hooker and bo diddley toured and appeared on TV with them. The adoption of the blues legends by the 60s (mostly working class) brit guitar bands revitalised the careers of american blues performers - until the likes of the stones championed them, they were very much relegated to the fringes of a highly segregated american music scene and their careers were moribund.
    (There's a famous clip where paul mc cartney is asked by an american journalist "what are you going to do tomorrow?" Mc cartney - "we're going to see muddy waters" journalist -"where's that?").

    This doesn't mean the music industry wasn't or isn't racist and black musicians weren't shamefully ripped off - or that the influence and importance of black music is not whitewashed out of history and marginalised - but the idea that "white people stole black peoples music" is trite bollocks.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
    Maggot likes this.
  3. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree I care not for the wealth of Gyges

    The cod reggae though?
    mojo pixy likes this.
  4. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    Not "white people", but certain musicians and arguably producers who made a lot of money and fame doing so.

    And having black musicians appear with them at that time is the same as many artists have done, not sure if the stones were the first; having less-known artists opening for them. Column (a) says this kind of patronage helps new artists make a name and gain a bigger audience. Column (b) says it's about appropriating credibility etc. When an established act tour with a new one I'd put it in (a). When a young group play with older artists who already have their own established audience, and put them in a support slot I'd be inclined to column (b)

    But I fear we're both taking this sacred cow slaughter a bit too seriously. I'll start on the fucking Beatles shortly :thumbs:

    Brown Sugar ffs.
  5. ouchmonkey

    ouchmonkey Singe Gainsbourg

    would that be people 'raving' about a record that I don't like then?
    I'd refer you once again to the title of the thread, although It appears there's been a three page long debate about what this thread is for and what it's about . . . not perhaps Coldplay - who are popular but generally thought to be a bit weak
    Zep on t'other hand - widely esteemed etc.
    people do (STILL, tediously) bang on and on about how great they are
    but it's shit.
  6. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    yeah - there's def an issue sanitised/smoothed versions of musical forms that just wants to nod to it for some kind of kudos - like the "whited up" versions of early R&B that would make the mainstream charts in american in the 50s (at the expense of the original record that would be relegated to the "race" charts) , or "cod reggae".

    But early elvis and jerry lewis - and the brit blues bands - stood out precisely because they embraced the rawness and energy of the original material. you could make a similar argument for the ska revivalists of two tone - or a lot of contemporary hip hop.
    There's a love and respect for the original music and a solidarity with its creators - much has been written about how young working white class kids in post war britain related to american blues music - a feeling of alienation from the power structure, a rejection of deferance and the aggresive assertion of individualirty and sexulaity - especailly when the mainstream culture was offering up bbc approved beige.
    SpookyFrank likes this.
  7. Kaka Tim

    Kaka Tim Crush the Saboteurs!

    Music in the US was almost completely segregated until rock'n'roll - and the likes of the stones were at the forefront of breaking that down. They hero worshipped these artists and definitely helped them revive their careers.

    Dusty Springfield championed the new soul music, it was at her insistence that Ready,Steady Go (which was a hugely influential program) devoted several entire programs to showcase motown artists - when they were little known in the UK - providing a major boost for black american artists. She was also chucked out of south africa because she insisted on performing to non-segregated audiences.

    And yes brown sugar is all sorts of wrong - but thats not really to do with the accusation that they "stole" or "ripped off" black music.

    Anyway - this is a discussion probably worthy of another thread and is in danger of massively derailing this one.
    SpookyFrank and mojo pixy like this.
  8. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree I care not for the wealth of Gyges

    Sticking to the Stones then, I'd agree with you that their respect for RnB and the blues was 100%. The whole of the British blues movement was just as respectful.

    Kudos to the Stones right up to the times of Gimme Shelter. But something went wrong bit by bit after that, to my mind, with more and more Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome.

    eg "Angie"- load of shit.
  9. mwgdrwg

    mwgdrwg Be a Pisces. Jam.

    Some spectacularly bad past winners of the Urban album of the year. All of these are shite.

    Richard Dawson – Peasant
    Courtney Barnett - Sometimes I Sit and Think, And Sometimes I Just Sit
    Swans - The Seer
    Radiohead - King of Limbs
    Caribou - Swim
    SpookyFrank and Kaka Tim like this.
  10. mwgdrwg

    mwgdrwg Be a Pisces. Jam.

    It seems the only good years are when Nick Cave has an album out.
  11. ouchmonkey

    ouchmonkey Singe Gainsbourg

    Peasant and The Seer are both amazing records
    although quite clearly there's something that's niche or difficult about them both that precludes a wide audience
  12. londonkid

    londonkid Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Nothing can compete with his first album.
  13. DJWrongspeed

    DJWrongspeed radio eros

    Agree, remember when it came out and there was loads of hype and didn't understand. Now it's become a ' classic' complete with hip hop sinfonias playing it, I'm still puzzled. I've got one his later albums which is pretty good though.
  14. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    I mean there's obviously one answer isn't there.

    The Smiths - The Queen is Dead.

    Like burying your head in the sand and not taking notice of 20 years of musical development.
  15. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    What do you think of Japanese punk?

    BristolEcho likes this.
  16. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    Urban is wrong on Aphex tho, Selected Ambient works II outguns SAW I.

    this is a common opinion in dance music circles but it's wrong tbh. Saw I is great but sometimes it gets a tad clunky and shows its age (not as a negative way.) It's just the way it is. but then people would say the hardcore and acid i listen to sounds a bit dated so who knows. SAW II is just cannon shit. like Confield. Will still sound timeless in 20 years time.
  17. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

    Bleach was an OK album.
  18. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

    On that note, any DnB that has accordions, fiddles, or other 'European' instruments in there. *shudder*
    dialectician likes this.
  19. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    very useful to put pot plants on
  20. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    there is a genre that mixes finnish folk with psytrance apparently, can't remember its name and i have to go out. probably atrocious but could be hilarious in a lol 19th century 'pan-turanism' way.
    stuff_it likes this.
  21. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

    All of happy hardcore... :(
  22. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

  23. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    Nah. this is a banger.

    nogojones likes this.
  24. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

    IMHO if it's got it's own sub-genre then quite a few people at least pretend to like it.
  25. stuff_it

    stuff_it stirred the primordial soup

    Nope, when hardcore and jungle divorced in '93 I deffo went jungle. Before that hardcore wasn't really truly happy, what with jungle beats hanging about telling it to fly right and sound cool and shit.
    dialectician likes this.
  26. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    i mean i agree. darkside is the best and most experimental period of rave music. but...

    sometimes u gotta replicate the feeling of being in year 6. in moderation, of course.
  27. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    Bizzy B tho right.

    cantsin likes this.
  28. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

  29. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    So noone a fan of Kuro then? :(

    What about Confuse?


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