danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Lol :d:d
Recommend me some Stockhausen...
- Thread starter kyser_soze
- Start date
HarrisonSlade
say NO to the vaccine
Anything from the 7 days. Absolute fucking genius
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
If it's Berg's "Lyric Suite", then I'd enjoy the music too much to want to hurt people.
I'll have to listen to it. The only thing by Berg I'm familiar with is Wozzeck.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Speaking as someone who has worked with young people and students, trust me, they really need a few pointers on how to listen, otherwise you're not giving them a fair chance on sound and certain musics. I'm not talking about a cattle prod approach here either and musical education was never important. We all need a chance to unbung our ears!People don't need to learn to listen properly. People have tastes, and when they hear something new they need a cultural reference point for what they're hearing. That's everyone, not just 'musically uneducated' people.
<I'm going too far now, aren't I?>
One of the most important things I learnt as a student was 'how' to listen. That has stayed with me throughout my life.
(I think we're discussing different things here anyway
)
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Alban Berg is fantastic. It's well worth getting to know more than Wozzeck (which, in my opinion, gets too much attention).
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
People tend (IMHO) to go for his operas (and operas in general) because they're "immediate". If you follow the story, they you can feel where the music is going, what it's communicating, rather than, as with the Lyric Suite perhaps, having to surrender yourself to a very sensual piece of music.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I listened to the second and third movements; I couldn't find the first on youtube.
Not too shabby.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Speaking as someone who has worked with young people and students, trust me, they really need a few pointers on how to listen, otherwise you're not giving them a fair chance on sound and certain musics. I'm not talking about a cattle prod approach here either and musical education was never important. We all need a chance to unbung our ears!
One of the most important things I learnt as a student was 'how' to listen. That has stayed with me throughout my life.
(I think we're discussing different things here anyway
I'd agree with this. When I took a music survey course in university, I entered as a teenager whose tastes stretched all the way from Deep Purple to Jimi Hendrix.
The test at the end of the course was 'drop the needle'. The prof would drop the needle on to one the dozens of compositions we'd studied during the year, for a few seconds. We'd have to identify the piece, the composer, the movement, etc. That meant studying by listening to it all, over and over, till it was committed to memory.
For awhile afterwards, I hated those pieces, but as time went by, I found that I'd developed an appreciation for the music that made me branch out past what we'd studied.
Without learning about the music, I doubt I'd have stumbled upon it on my own.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It also helps you appreciate the differences between different interpretations of pieces by the conductors.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
OK, so my initial session with Karlheinz went OK (despite wry's comments above). Found a compilation called 'Editions' which was a handy way in; have found I generally prefer his 'soundscape' type stuff, and I can certainly see across some of his output (I will get names to pieces soon...) as being very samey as JC2 said.
Early faves tho:
Helicopter and String Quartet
Sirius
Mirkophonie 2
Dienstag aus Licht
The Aquarius peices from Tierkreis
Danny - top contributions mate, will wind my way onto Schoenberg et al as time goes on. Think that I will try and get tickets for the performance at the RFH as well
Early faves tho:
Helicopter and String Quartet
Sirius
Mirkophonie 2
Dienstag aus Licht
The Aquarius peices from Tierkreis
Danny - top contributions mate, will wind my way onto Schoenberg et al as time goes on. Think that I will try and get tickets for the performance at the RFH as well
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I agree. Otherwise, I never would have appreciated the genius of von Karajan.
prunus
Tick tock.
12 tone music, Webern vs. Schoenberg and other fun stuff
JC2 - again with the dismissal of an entire genre - try listening to Webern's opus 1 (his 'official' opus 1, not actually the first piece he wrote, but the first he felt happy enough with to award an opus number to) Passacaglia, and Berg's violin concerto (one of the masterworks of the last century IMO) for some serial music that hopefully will revise your nailgun approach.
Webern vs. Schoenberg - well, there's a debate For my part, although Webern might not have reached the heights he did without his teacher's profound influence (Webern did after all start writing in a romantic style - although even his early stuff is rather magical - try Im Sommerwind for example) he (Webern) is on a different place of genius from Schoenberg. The five pieces for orchestra (and the six pieces too), and the opus 21 Symphony, for instance, are unmatched I think for sheer inspiration by anything by Schoenberg - although I'd be very happy to be corrected - point me at the best of Schoenberg, please I'm not very knowledgable about him.
And while we're on 20th century geniuses - can I throw Messiaen into the mix. On a par with Bach in my opinion. Discuss
JC2 - again with the dismissal of an entire genre - try listening to Webern's opus 1 (his 'official' opus 1, not actually the first piece he wrote, but the first he felt happy enough with to award an opus number to) Passacaglia, and Berg's violin concerto (one of the masterworks of the last century IMO) for some serial music that hopefully will revise your nailgun approach.
Webern vs. Schoenberg - well, there's a debate
For my part, although Webern might not have reached the heights he did without his teacher's profound influence (Webern did after all start writing in a romantic style - although even his early stuff is rather magical - try Im Sommerwind for example) he (Webern) is on a different place of genius from Schoenberg. The five pieces for orchestra (and the six pieces too), and the opus 21 Symphony, for instance, are unmatched I think for sheer inspiration by anything by Schoenberg - although I'd be very happy to be corrected - point me at the best of Schoenberg, please I'm not very knowledgable about him.And while we're on 20th century geniuses - can I throw Messiaen into the mix. On a par with Bach in my opinion. Discuss
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
A good starting point would be Robert Craft's "Schoeberg: Five Orchestral Pieces", on Naxos.point me at the best of Schoenberg, please
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Mind you, IIRC Webern's Passacaglia (beautiful though it is) was pre-Serial.
As for Berg's Violin Concerto, I stopped talking about it a couple of years ago, because every time someone I knew praised a piece of violin music I compared it to berg and found it wanting.
Webern vs. Schoenberg - well, there's a debate
And while we're on 20th century geniuses - can I throw Messiaen into the mix. On a par with Bach in my opinion. Discuss
I'm not as fond of bach as I should be (too much early exposure by music teacher). but ou only have to listen to Turangalilla symphonie, Quartet for the End of Time, Catalogue D'oiseaux or Des Canyons aux étoiles to see that Messaien was a master.
57tvmykh
I played some of the Vingt Regards for my final year degree recital. My interpretation was not appreciated and I was given an extremely suspect mark that nearly ruined my chances of entering a great Masters programme somewhere else.
I've not had anything to do with the university since.
I played some of the Vingt Regards for my final year degree recital. My interpretation was not appreciated and I was given an extremely suspect mark that nearly ruined my chances of entering a great Masters programme somewhere else.
I've not had anything to do with the university since.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I'm impressed; you're a pianist of some merit, then?
Which sections did you play?
Which sections did you play?
Around five of them - forget the numbers and I don't have the score with me atm.
Wonderful though, aren't they?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Fantastic.
Do you have any particular recommendations of a recording. I have Michel Beroff. But I know he wrote them for his wife. I haven't heard a recording of her playing them, though.
Do you have any particular recommendations of a recording. I have Michel Beroff. But I know he wrote them for his wife. I haven't heard a recording of her playing them, though.
prunus
Tick tock.
Ah so it is (Passacaglia) Ahem. Still wonderful though. OK, replace with the opus 21 Symphony then.
(hides head in shame)
Couldn't agree more about the Berg though
do you know Magnus Lindberg's Chorale? Also based on Es Ist Genug. It's on the same CD as his stunning clarinet concerto, played by Kari Krikkuu who is quite frankly supernaturally brilliant.Other than the Beroff, the Aimard version is the only other I know of recent recordings.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
What's the Aimard like?
A little eccentric, very polished, and very, very French.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
French is good in the circumstances.
I do like the Beroff, though. Can't really see how it can be bettered.
I do like the Beroff, though. Can't really see how it can be bettered.
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