Reclaim The Night. 24/11 (london)
- Thread starter wtfftw
- Start date
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Louloubelle said:can the OP please clarify whether the strategy of picketing lap dancing clubs and brothels has been abandoned or is still on the menu for this particular event?
ta
Many might be up for this approach, I'm not one of them but I think the publicity should make the strategy plain.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
I've got no objections to women only events - it's up to them.
I would have also thought (hoped) such events and those involved with them had progressed a bit politically since the knee-jerk rad.fem. agendas of the 'reclaim the night' demos of the 80s
(which, initially were initiated - ostensibly in response to bradford Police's 'advice' to women to stay off the streets at night during the Yorkshire ripper's 'reign' but basically were hi-jacked by middle class spare rib type feminist separatists who targetted knocking shops, strip clubs, sex shops and also cinemas showing slasher horror films (consolidating that great dworkin/mckinnon defence for rapists that their actions were somehow influenced by what they saw on the silver screen, absolving themselves of responsibility for their actions). a lot of their beliefs ('the free-masonry of sisterhood'/'porn=theory, rape=practice' etc) clearly ill-conceived foolishness
then again, i'm not a woman and i've never been on the receiving end of domestic/sexual violence so i'm not really qualified to comment
I would have also thought (hoped) such events and those involved with them had progressed a bit politically since the knee-jerk rad.fem. agendas of the 'reclaim the night' demos of the 80s
(which, initially were initiated - ostensibly in response to bradford Police's 'advice' to women to stay off the streets at night during the Yorkshire ripper's 'reign' but basically were hi-jacked by middle class spare rib type feminist separatists who targetted knocking shops, strip clubs, sex shops and also cinemas showing slasher horror films (consolidating that great dworkin/mckinnon defence for rapists that their actions were somehow influenced by what they saw on the silver screen, absolving themselves of responsibility for their actions). a lot of their beliefs ('the free-masonry of sisterhood'/'porn=theory, rape=practice' etc) clearly ill-conceived foolishness
then again, i'm not a woman and i've never been on the receiving end of domestic/sexual violence so i'm not really qualified to comment
scumbalina
Scummy Mummy
chico enrico said:
I'm in two minds....I can see the arguement but also think that these issues affect men too, they need mens involvement and condemnation and efforts as well, that it seems weird to cut out 50% of the population who *hopefully* care as much about the issue.
chico enrico said:then again, i'm not a woman and i've never been on the receiving end of domestic/sexual violence so i'm not really qualified to comment
Yes you are. Your mother, daughter, wife, lover,friend is a woman, their issues are your issues IMO.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
with respect, i didn't say i was in agreement with it, just that it's up to them, if the women involved with organising such campaigns decide they function better without men, while i'd say it is divisive and counter-productive, i don't really think men are in a position to criticise, when it would surely be more positive to simply accept the dynamic and do whatever they can in support/solidarity.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I've seen some RadFem arguments about the importance of women-only events but I'm ambivalent about that. They might be right but it kind of puts me off 
What I mean by that, is that I can maybe see value in certain events e.g. conferences etc being women-only - but not in this particular type of march/demo in the here and now. For instance, I'm unlikely to spend my Sat evening going on a march for a while and saying to the b/f 'meet you later when you're allowed, even if you support this in principle and would come along if you could'. Doesn't inspire me.
I'm also a bit re the alleged targeting of sex clubs and the like. From what I can gather, no-one has posted saying 'yes, this is what the march does, I was there and this is what happened' or the converse. It's all 3rd hand relaying and opinions. I'd like to know what actually happens from someone that has recently done it.
There's an historical momentum that would be good to build upon, but at the moment I can't see a reason for changing my plans for Sat night.
But on the plus side it's ace to have a discussion rather than feeling cornered into the defensive.
What I mean by that, is that I can maybe see value in certain events e.g. conferences etc being women-only - but not in this particular type of march/demo in the here and now. For instance, I'm unlikely to spend my Sat evening going on a march for a while and saying to the b/f 'meet you later when you're allowed, even if you support this in principle and would come along if you could'. Doesn't inspire me.
I'm also a bit
re the alleged targeting of sex clubs and the like. From what I can gather, no-one has posted saying 'yes, this is what the march does, I was there and this is what happened' or the converse. It's all 3rd hand relaying and opinions. I'd like to know what actually happens from someone that has recently done it.There's an historical momentum that would be good to build upon, but at the moment I can't see a reason for changing my plans for Sat night.
But on the plus side it's ace to have a discussion rather than feeling cornered into the defensive.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
I phoned up the organisers a few years back (see linked to thread on page 1 of this thread) and they made no apologies about targeting lap dance clubs and brothels. At least they were open about it then. I'm still interested in hearing from the OP about what will happen with the march this year.
I also had a rather one sided debate that consisted of a woman ranting away about how sex workers were gender traitors who let all other women down by being sex workers and who deserved to be on the receiving end of protests by feminists.
This same woman was also involved in campaigning against pornography. She appeared, to me, to have a lot of serious unresolved issues and she wasn't up for listening to me or anyone else
It pisses me off that a group who spend do much time reading and quoting the late millionaire Andrea Dworkin feel entitled to dictate to poor women about how they should and should not earn their money.
I also had a rather one sided debate that consisted of a woman ranting away about how sex workers were gender traitors who let all other women down by being sex workers and who deserved to be on the receiving end of protests by feminists.
This same woman was also involved in campaigning against pornography. She appeared, to me, to have a lot of serious unresolved issues and she wasn't up for listening to me or anyone else
It pisses me off that a group who spend do much time reading and quoting the late millionaire Andrea Dworkin feel entitled to dictate to poor women about how they should and should not earn their money.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
cesare said:I'm also a bit
well the OP has been asked, she's just not responding
draw your own conclusions
wtfftw
roof's about to blow ♩♪♩♬ ♬♩♪♩
Sorry. Completely forgot I'd posted this tbh.Louloubelle said:well the OP has been asked, she's just not responding
draw your own conclusions
I've not been because marching isn't something I'm able to do.
I think it's a mixed crowd though. I've not been though so I don't feel qualified to say. I'd have thought if people have a problem they could go a long and change it... I'm also uncomfortable that as far as I can work out the chants change when they go past stringfellows (I think it's stringfellows). London feminist network doesn't have a manifesto that I've spotted. I think reclaim the night is organised by the person who runs the email list but the list tends to be a communication hub. Various actions get planned. bah. My brain isn't on (hence I'm less likely to open discussion as I'm well aware I often cant come back and give adequate replies).
If I've missed something feel free to reiterate but bare in mind I can barely make sense of my own writing at the mo'.
Been googling to find out the stance re: sex workers but I'm mainly turning up reports about the ipswich march. Found a personal blog of someone who attended last year
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Code:
Spearmint Rhino appeared to have shut up shop (or at least its front door) for the night, and the march paused outside to direct special attention towards the ‘gentlemen’s club’, and stick “sexist” stickers everywhere. There was one woman who lived right above it, out on her balcony to support the protest.
(Some people have mentioned on the London Feminist Network email list, that the women inside might have mistakenly thought the protest was directed at them, rather than the management and clientèle, but [B]hopefully[/B] that wasn’t the case.)chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
Badgers said:
What, to Rhinos? Nah, I was gonna go but there was a load of hairies squawking outside so I went round the corner and scored a prozzer instead
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
PS: thought it was funny a few years ago at a Mayday march when some crusty types did a bit of a protest outside The Astral , much to the amused bewilderment of the lads outside. Shame they hadn't bothered to find out it had changed to a gay table-dancing club. Still, "All men are potential rapists" n'all that. 
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