Rebuke rowdy teenagers say Tories.

[Isambard]

It's the hypocrasy of the tories and labour that makes me sick.
I'll gladly support a ban on outdoor drinking if it is banned at Ascot and Henley too but that's not on the agenda is it?

I don't doubt that some immigrants have felt threatened by gangs of "neds" at Glasgow bus stops but how the fuck the tories or labour can pretend to be their friend to push their law and order agenda is almost too funny.

 

[untethered]

It's the hypocrasy of the tories and labour that makes me sick.
I'll gladly support a ban on outdoor drinking if it is banned at Ascot and Henley too but that's not on the agenda is it?

How does people drinking at Ascot and Henley diminish anyone else's quality of life?

 

[Fullyplumped]

It's the hypocrasy of the tories and labour that makes me sick.
I'll gladly support a ban on outdoor drinking if it is banned at Ascot and Henley too but that's not on the agenda is it?

I don't doubt that some immigrants have felt threatened by gangs of "neds" at Glasgow bus stops but how the fuck the tories or labour can pretend to be their friend to push their law and order agenda is almost too funny.

Outdoor drinking is banned in the streets of Glasgow, Ascot and Henley are tightly policed segregated social environments to which people have chosen to go. They're not the streets outside people's homes.

I don't think the Tories, at any rate, are that concerned with being, or appearing to be, the friends of refugees in housing schemes in Glasgow. I am, which is why it's important to me that people are able to feel safe in public places, and that adults should be confident in checking teenage behaviour within reasonable limits, even if the teenagers don't understand why what they're doing is harmng others.

 

[Isambard]

The problem we have now is that it's not just Brighton on a bank holiday but every town centre on every weekend and many suburban areas too.

I don't know how old you are but do you remember back to 1988?

On Sunday mornings there was a programme on BBC2 called CountryFile presented by John Craven. I used to watch it now and again as I lived in a rural area. One Sunday EVERYONE watched it as they did a massive shocking "exposé" of the alcohol fuelled terror that was supposedly sweeping the small market towns of Southern England - and filmed it in the town where I lived.

So the notion that we are seeing a new phenomena now is most certainly NOT true.

 

[untethered]

I don't know how old you are but do you remember back to 1988?

I don't remember it. I think I must have been plastered at a bus stop at the time.

So the notion that we are seeing a new phenomena now is most certainly NOT true.

It's not a new phenomenon as such. Young people have always caused trouble to a degree. What's new is the widespread nature of it. The problem has been growing over the years from the occasional bit of rowdiness here and there to an entrenched way of life for many young people in most neighbourhoods.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I don't know how old you are but do you remember back to 1988?

I am much older than you.

 

[Isambard]

I grew up near Henley.

Drinking on one stretch of the river bank is OK becasue people pay a LOT of money to go into an enclosure whereas people that don't are criminals?

Where I live now is an inner city area with a decades long tradition of having a busy nightlife scene and a level of street drinking. Some elements of the council and the police want to cut down on it as it "annoys residents". Funny how that is happening at the same time as gentrification and of course all the new chi chi restaurants that have sprung up in the area will be allowed to serve alcohol at the tables they have on the streets.

It's a class issue through and through.

I don't remember it. I think I must have been plastered at a bus stop at the time.

Another personal little dig.
Where does a busy social life, including drinking pevent you being aware from your surroundings and taking an interest in them?
I was active politically and got good exam results at school despite the cider.

 

[Giles]

I grew up near Henley.

Drinking on one stretch of the river bank is OK becasue people pay a LOT of money to go into an enclosure whereas people that don't are criminals?

Where I live now is an inner city area with a decades long tradition of having a busy nightlife scene and a level of street drinking. Some elements of the council and the police want to cut down on it as it "annoys residents". Funny how that is happening at the same time as gentrification and of course all the new chi chi restaurants that have sprung up in the area will be allowed to serve alcohol at the tables they have on the streets.

It's a class issue through and through.

It isnn't a class issue, it is a behaviour issue.

People sitting drinking outside cafes, pubs and restaurants are usually pretty well-behaved. They are usually older and more responsible.

What scares people about big groups of pissed-up teens is that unpredictable tendency to violence, especially if someone asks them to be quiet / stop spitting on them / stop breaking stuff.

Suddenly the whole group can go from "just having a laugh with their mates" to an over-the-top group assault on the person telling them off, or even on someone having the temerity to wait at the bus-stop etc. Such things pop up in the news with depressing regularity.

To compare this to the likely behaviour of restaurant customers is just silly.

Giles..

 

[Demosthenes]

"Curtain twitchers and the string-em-up brigade" are citizens too, with votes. They presently feel disempowered and a Tory politician is trying to exploit this.

Much more likely to vote than most people here as well.

 

[LindaR]

My husband regularly tells off teenagers who are dropping litter, or the like.
I've told off a skinhead who was smoking on the bus.
Neither of us has ever been verbally or physically attacked.
In my case, I suspect it was because the bloke was so stunned at being challenged by a woman.
In my husband's case, I suspect it's because he makes Martin Johnson look like a wimp.
We're both lefties, and we both think there's nothing right-wing about expecting people to show some consideration for others.

 

[LindaR]

Much more likely to vote than most people here as well.

Really? I've only missed voting at one election since 1979 and that's because I was commuting, left before the polls opened, and thanks to a privatised train bugger-up, didn't get home until after they closed.

 

[trevhagl]

Well that's a highly amusing graphic, ha ha ha ha, but it doesn't take the debate any further. Should people in communities who presently feel powerless to intervene always have to wait for cops to intervene? What are practical ways forward?

I don't think coppers come out these days for anything less than murder?

 

[Azrael]

Fine sentiment by Dominic Grieve, but there's only one way it'll become a reality.

People are unwilling to intervene because they have no confidence that an amoral law, neutral between "offender" and "victim", will back them up. This boils down to allowing constables the discretion to ignore allegations they think to be groundless or malicious. The bureaucratic PACE demands automatic police investigation, and was introduced by the Tories. It must be repealed, but I doubt Mr Grieve is willing to do something that radical.

Also, will Mr Grieve allow law-abiding people to carry weapons sufficient to defend themselves against thugs? Again, I doubt it.

Unless Mr Grieve proposes a courageous policy guaranteed to produce baseless howls of "vigilantism", this is so much empty rhetoric.

 

[audiotech]

This youth culture is, of course, rebellious and anti-authority.

Did you burn Beatles records in the sixties?