Racist Suppression Through Bad Education?

[brixtonvilla]

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[trabuquera]

Not being a teacher or having kids I'm reluctant to say what's truly at the root of the terrible performance of UK education in getting an adequate percentage of black male pupils to pass the most basic exams.

just for kicks, tho: if you are at all interested in race&education in the US, which is in some senses even worse because of the way it's funded, the daddy of all investigators is a bloke called Jonathan Kozol, whose work SAVAGE INEQUALITIES and others does a sterling job of tracing the roots and the possible remedies of school failure.

parallel issue: there are plenty of race/class problems in education in other EU countries - some far worse than ours (viz the Roma kids in the Czech republic & slovakia who're funneled into the 'educationally subnormal' schools as a matter of course - as used to happen in the UK in the 60s/70s a lot, but I think less so now...). Other European countries which we tend to think of as having stronger, more 'uniting', better funded ed systems than ours (Netherlands, France) seem on the surface to be much more hardline about getting everyone educated to a basic level - but then problems of wider racism kick in and the unemployment rates among French or Dutch-born Muslims are atrocious - don't know what their exam pass rates are.

my best guess is that there are certainly too many white teachers inclined to over-react to black boys in particular playing up, and situations escalating at the kids' expense ... but conversely - there's NO excuse, not ever, for punching a teacher and you DO have to enforce some levels of behaviour for anyone to learn anything in the classroom; some ethnic minorities do better than white kids; and peer & parent pressure is far more important in the long run than anything any individual teacher does. Sure there's some racism still but I think it's definitely pushing it to say that the system, or individual teachers, set(s) out to deliberately repress or marginalise black children.

 

[Cloo]

my best guess is that there are certainly too many white teachers inclined to over-react to black boys in particular playing up, and situations escalating at the kids' expense ... but conversely - there's NO excuse, not ever, for punching a teacher and you DO have to enforce some levels of behaviour for anyone to learn anything in the classroom; some ethnic minorities do better than white kids; and peer & parent pressure is far more important in the long run than anything any individual teacher does. Sure there's some racism still but I think it's definitely pushing it to say that the system, or individual teachers, set(s) out to deliberately repress or marginalise black children.

I'd very much agree. I think there is (totally unintentional) jumpiness among white teachers about the behaviour of black boys. They're faced with a barrage of societal ideas about 'Young black men, gangs, violence, guns', they may be faced with kids being cheeky and speaking in an argot that they don't understand and this makes them feel threatened. Thus, what might be seen as 'larking around' in white kids is translated into 'threatening behaviour' or major misdemeanors when the students are black.

There is, perhaps more controversially, an issue that many black educationalists and public figures have raised - that we need to admit there is something of an anti school achievement attitude socially among many peer groups of black boys (this also has a problem, of course, that all such boys can get tarnished with the same label, see above, when that's not the case). As to the causes of that, that can be argued to the cows come home. But how else to explain that african-carribbean boys tend to achieve perfectly well at primary stage, yet performance collapses significantly at secondary age on the whole? People are scared to tackle this issue but I think it may be the most pertinent one and these kids won't be helped until it is dealt with honestly. Again, how is a huge question.

 

[Jayshat]

How do black and white children have different needs? They're not different species, you know.

The most stupid comment I've ever heard on here, and that's saying something.

To answer Mrs M's point, yes I do go into a lot of inner city schools and there is nowhere near 25% black teachers where I have been...

Enlightened teachers are great, black or white, but the whole question was about racism through education and yes there is is for black boys by middle class white female teachers (what % of the teaching population - 60-70?). Tony Sewell is the researcher on this.

Nobody is saying a poor black teacher is more valued that a good white teacher, that's actually a non argument. The point is about how black kids are treated and perceived in the media, community, and education. You can't compare chinese or indian pupils as they don't have the baggage of negative media that black people do.

Blame the parents rather than the system, that's easy enough to do...

 

[ether]

Simple first week PGCE (teacher training) course issues include "respect for the pupils" (in fact this is Qualified Teacher Status Standard 1.1)and "differentiation".

Common fucking sense, but plenty on the course give it no more thought than writing it down in the lecture. People who will be teaching, probably in London, next September are still saying shit like "some kids are just unteachable".

The deep pervasive nature of racism means a few lectures aren't gonna penetrate it for people that have been raised in those kind of casually bigoted families. They'd be horrified to be called racist, but they will detriment the education of the kids in their classes by their unspoken attitudes. If a teacher does not have the respect of his/her class, earned by showing respect, the kids won't learn.

On those terms, bad education (by not showing evidence of meeting QTS standards) does create a situation whereby the race of some of the children affects the benefit they will be able to get from their school days. If not active suppression, then certainly passive/ignorant attitudes to a suppressing status quo.

 

[brixtonvilla]

Think you'll find (once you get past the first week) that differentiation refers to differentiation by ability, rather than anything else. You may also find that people who just write it down & don't practice it effectively won't pass the course. And since when do the opinions of student teachers in the first few weeks count for much?

Keep in mind that a PGCE does not turn out teachers, despite giving Qualified Teacher Status. A PGCE is a one-year introduction to educational philosophies, the regulatory framework and good classroom practice. Nothing teaches you how to do the job like experience, and people can change their attitudes and ideas, based on what they learn. If you really think that people (in this case teachers) are incapable of changing their attitudes and ideas, why be a teacher?

As for your point about teachers having the respect of their class - how is this different for children of different races? Wouldn't that be the same in an all-white/all-black class?

One of the main points of a PGCE is to teach reflective practice - so that teachers think about what they do, question their assumptions and amend their teaching if necessary. I take your point that a few lectures aren't going to change ingrained attitudes, but daily experience teaching often does. I know it did for me.

 

[ether]

Think you'll find (once you get past the first week) that differentiation refers to differentiation by ability, rather than anything else.

Nope, cheers for the condescension though.

And since when do the opinions of student teachers in the first few weeks count for much?

Er, coz they're fully grown adults in their 20s, 30s, 40s, who strongly argue that some kids are unteachable.

Keep in mind that a PGCE does not turn out teachers, despite giving Qualified Teacher Status. A PGCE is a one-year introduction to educational philosophies, the regulatory framework and good classroom practice. Nothing teaches you how to do the job like experience, and people can change their attitudes and ideas, based on what they learn.

So at what point does one become a teacher? True, experience is key, but a decade's experience is pointless if you don't reflect and learn from it. The PGCE IS mostly experience in school.

If you really think that people (in this case teachers) are incapable of changing their attitudes and ideas, why be a teacher?

Well, I don't think that. People as a whole can. Other individuals have amply demonstrated their views, and in a way such that they seem unlikely to change them.

As for your point about teachers having the respect of their class - how is this different for children of different races? Wouldn't that be the same in an all-white/all-black class?

It isn't. It is the same. Respect is a human issue, not a race one. Specifically on the race issue of this thread, though... I think any divide in the pupils' response to a racist teacher will be along the lines of sensitivity to the issue, not on race lines per se. QTS standards are evidential hoops to jump through. All you need to be able to do is show SOME evidence of respect for pupil's backgrounds etc. It's too easy. The problem is that you can do this and still be a prejudiced fuck. Nothing an observing teacher might even pick up on, but 30+ kids x several classes watching you every day will see that shit if it's there.

One of the main points of a PGCE is to teach reflective practice - so that teachers think about what they do, question their assumptions and amend their teaching if necessary. I take your point that a few lectures aren't going to change ingrained attitudes, but daily experience teaching often does. I know it did for me

.

True, but the questioning of assumptions has the limited aim of improving classroom practice. Such a widely framed goal allows a trainee/teacher to say "yip, I'm an assumption busting machine" and still have no clue that their bad attitudes WILL be seen by kids, who will then have no respect for the teacher. I think some teachers will just allow their prejudices to be reinforced by their own prejudiced interpretations of their experience.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, Brixtonvilla, or anyone...
Are there any ways to stop "racist suppression through bad education"?