Racism in London

[STFC]

Haven't seen any evidence of racism in Sydenham, having lived there for nearly two years. Pretty mixed area but no sign of any tension as far as I can tell.

Sometimes too much emphasis can be put on what is perceived to be 'racism'. Some people can be horrible bastards to others, regardless of ethinicity, but all too often people are too eager to cry 'racism'. Just a general observation, not a response to any specific incidents mentioned on this thread.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But London is still very segregated in terms of race and class.

I don't agree with that at all. London has many problems, but one of its strengths is that there are no ghettoes.

Almost every area is mixed both racially and socio-economically. In many parts of London millionaires live opposite council estates, and there is no area with just one ethnic group, except maybe richville Hampstead or scaryville Eltham which are nearly all white. But these are exceptions.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Yes yes.... You just 'know' racism. Like everyone else in London. What, were they all skin-eds? Dont tell me thats how you made your judgement. Why make an assumption at all?

Im not saying your overstepping the mark or anything, but it does happen alot and the flames can be fanned by anger to past experiences. How do you make such a bold assumption, without any racist comments even being said?

did you miss the part of the story where he quoted the man who spoke to the black school kid

he had to cheek to turn around and say, and I kid you not. he said "we have first priority on buses, blacks are always last on the bus"

 

[STFC]

I don't agree with that at all. London has many problems, but one of its strengths is that there are no ghettoes.

Almost every area is mixed both racially and socio-economically. In many parts of London millionaires live opposite council estates, and there is no area with just one ethnic group, except maybe richville Hampstead or scaryville Eltham which are nearly all white. But these are exceptions.

Parts of East London are almost exclusively Bangladeshi.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There's a good post from William that says much of what I would.

It seems to me that the definition of success for multiculturalism is anything below a full blown riot.

At the same time that is a definite undercurrent of racism / segregation that is difficult to guage in quantative terms - other than the personal antidotes that posters above have expressed.

I think racism has got noticeable worse in recent years and that all started with the anti-asylum seeker issue about six or seven years ago.

This is mixed in with intense competition for housing and employment - a burden that, as always, rests heaviest on the poor.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Parts of East London are almost exclusively Bangladeshi.

Yes, maybe that is the exception that could be described as a ghetto. But it is very much an exception.

Compare, for instance, with Paris, which is surrounded by huge suburban ghettoes of immigrants.

 

[Numbers]

just to add, I'm a white 'skinhead' myself. my wife is a black 'skinhead'.

whatever 'skinhead' means these days.

I'm no wallflower, nor am I naive in anyway, and I choose my comments about race carefully.

But I do know racism when I see it. and where I live in East London is the MOST RACIST PLACE I'VE EVER LIVED. fact.

you can try and break my reasoning down however much you want, but those who know me on here will also know I am not talking out of me arse and making rash judgements.

peace.

 

[Spion]

Living in London over the last 12 years (I moved away about a year ago), I definately saw the rise of a kind of casual every-day general racism <snip>

Blimey, how do you find West Yorks then? Racism seems much more prevalent here. I also lived in London for a long time until 2-3 years ago

 

[Poi E]

I've seen more racism directed towards white people than blacks when living in south east london

I'm a white fella. Seen/experienced none in New Cross in the five years I've been here.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

i was at a on eof my regular club nights where i take photos as part of the club last friday and one of the peopel int he club comes up to me and simply says you don't want to take photos in here there's no one famous here just a load of coons ... to which i said WHAT resiting the urge to smash the camer cross his face... you know jungle bunnies coons niggers ... at which point i tol dhim to leave then and there... you'd think that at one of the largest professional black nights in the city that you'd not get this type of bollocks but sadly it happens a lot and often where you least expect it... it was the blantentness of the comment which asstounded me that and why the hell would you go to a black club night and then complain about the cleintell seems like settign your self up for dissappointment... it fucked me off for about 2 hours afterwards though that and totally ruined what was in all other respects a reaaly good night...

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Out of interest Tony, whereabouts in East London do you live?

 

[Numbers]

DC, Canning Town.

Garf', I agree, it was the blatantness of it all which threw me aswell. I'm used to non-integration and peeps going about their own business, they can harbour whatever ill intent they want, but it takes an awful thick individual to be blatant about it.

 

[BlackSpecs]

I don't agree with that at all. London has many problems, but one of its strengths is that there are no ghettoes.

Almost every area is mixed both racially and socio-economically. In many parts of London millionaires live opposite council estates, and there is no area with just one ethnic group, except maybe richville Hampstead or scaryville Eltham which are nearly all white. But these are exceptions.

Agree with that 100%! having moved to paris recently from London , i really notice the difference. In London the mix is all over the place and during a normal day one would come in contact with other races/skin-colours a thousand times without blinking. Here you "notice" , which is odd !!! London has always be a champion for integration and i don't think a few cunts on the bus should tarnish that reputation. It is only after i left the place that i realized that Londoners embrace "difference" and "uniqueness" with a passion!!

The situations people have come across are born out of frustration imo . i have taken buses and there is about 4 coloured youth with their mp3's playing music out loud and leaving their chicken-drums on the floor and people will go : see ! only THEY will act like that! Not knowingly both the kiddies and the person commenting will hurt the wonderful old lady a few seats down that worked all her live to get her family over from abroad and has contributed more to british life than most. It's about education on both sides.

 

[tbaldwin]

DC, Canning Town.

Garf', I agree, it was the blatantness of it all which threw me aswell. I'm used to non-integration and peeps going about their own business, they can harbour whatever ill intent they want, but it takes an awful thick individual to be blatant about it.

A few close friends grew up in Canning Town....It always had a rep as a scarey place for Black and Asian people...Nowadays when ive been there the place has changed a lot. Newham used to be a typical inner london borough where different groups were more or less segregated on race lines.
I cant imagine its any worse than it was.

 

[tbaldwin]

I don't agree with that at all. London has many problems, but one of its strengths is that there are no ghettoes.

Almost every area is mixed both racially and socio-economically. In many parts of London millionaires live opposite council estates, and there is no area with just one ethnic group, except maybe richville Hampstead or scaryville Eltham which are nearly all white. But these are exceptions.

Kind of missed my point...Yeah maybe the rich and poor live close by, but that doesnt mean everyone gets on fabbously darling...There is lots of simmering resentment against rich incomers.....Its just they dont always notice it....

 

[Numbers]

A few close friends grew up in Canning Town....It always had a rep as a scarey place for Black and Asian people...Nowadays when ive been there the place has changed a lot. Newham used to be a typical inner london borough where different groups were more or less segregated on race lines.
I cant imagine its any worse than it was.

I've only been in the place a cpl of years.

what's noticeable about the place is the demograph. you have a lot of east European, a lot of east African and a lost of old school Eastenders.

it doesn't sit well together.

Like I said in this thread already. I see it from all angles. And my wife and I receive it from all angles, but not in our face. it's peoples actions, gestures and under the breath murmerings you notice.

There's no interaction whatsoever. none. We lived in Tooting broadway for 4 years before moving here and there is/was a world of difference in how people integrate. In CT it doesn't happen, yes people get on with things but there is no communication, no interaction and the place stinks of mistrust.

It's sad. I've been in London from my teenage years and I'm now approaching 40, I've also lived north, south, east & west, incl' places like Feltham.

never in all those years and in all these areas I lived have I seen it the way I see it now.

The incident y/day was the worst I've seen in 1 way cos it was a 40/50 year old grown man directing his ignorance at a young girl.

what DG55 doesn't realise with his flying off the handle comments about skinheads etc.. is that the builder looking blokes who got on after this girl, who this cunt didn't say a word to were I suspect polish and skinheads. but they were tough looking fuckers, so he didn't say a word to them even tho' they were the ones blocking the door.

not only was he a racist, he was a coward too. a man who is a racist coward is not a man.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

DC, Canning Town.

Garf', I agree, it was the blatantness of it all which threw me aswell. I'm used to non-integration and peeps going about their own business, they can harbour whatever ill intent they want, but it takes an awful thick individual to be blatant about it.

tbh i wasn't acutally preparred for the level of insensed rage which it provoked either i spent the next two hours flitting between rah i ought to have kicked you stupid fuckiing head in to how the fuck can anyone in this day and age whose under 60 still think tis is acceptable let alone think it permissable to voice those opinions...

 

[Numbers]

Likewise mate. I stopped 'getting involved' ages ago, cos I don't need to be stabbed or the like.

but I was shocked into response.

 

[Yetman]

Blimey, how do you find West Yorks then? Racism seems much more prevalent here. I also lived in London for a long time until 2-3 years ago

I thought the country was getting better ffs....when I was much younger people were racist as fuck, they'd throw around racist comments without thought, I remember people saying things like 'paki' in front of me when I was 6 years old, it was that accepted.

Now, I thought it was much different, I dont hear racist names thrown around any more and if someone does say something out of line, there's usually a load of people, whites included, ready to jump in and put them right.

Well, til I went to a wedding in Yorkshire last year

It was out in the sticks and I was chatting to a few older blokes and when I was on about the people in the villages, one said 'we dont get the nig nogs around here', then his wife walked by and said 'and we've got the pitchforks ready if they ever do'........I was gobsmacked. I mean, how can a normal fucking person think like that? I just walked off

But seriously I thought the country as a whole was over it, had grown up. Even children dont have such a low mentality ffs.

 

[mashedmaryland]

I don't agree with that at all. London has many problems, but one of its strengths is that there are no ghettoes.

Almost every area is mixed both racially and socio-economically. In many parts of London millionaires live opposite council estates, and there is no area with just one ethnic group, except maybe richville Hampstead or scaryville Eltham which are nearly all white. But these are exceptions.

jesus ! have u ever been anywhere in London



i feel like ralph mctell !!

i could show a few places that would make u change your mind !

come to newham we may be all different colours but were all poor as fuck

 

[littlebabyjesus]

jesus ! have u ever been anywhere in London



i feel like ralph mctell !!

i could show a few places that would make u change your mind !

come to newham we may be all different colours but were all poor as fuck

Alright, I accept that parts of the East End are different, but there are whole swathes of North, West and South London that are as I describe.

 

[Numbers]

All of these places you mention LBJ may be mixed, but ime of London, every area, N, S, E & W are full of racism.

The East End is not alone, it's just ime that it is the worst. Feltham was bad, but it was more 1 way. where I am now, it's from all angles.

 

[kyser_soze]

TBH most of the racism I've overheard in the streets, on buses etc has generally been between various Eastern Europeans about each other or 'the blacks' and between South Asians and Africans. I don't think I've heard white-on-black racism expressed that blatantly since I moved here in 1992.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that how 'integrated' someone is into multiculturalism varies wildly from place to place, and that no one should ever underestimate the role that 'tolerance' rather than 'acceptance' plays in London society in particular - the idea that people don't necessarily like each other but by an large will keep the peace so that everyone can get on with their lives without too much friction. Tolerance is a very different beast to acceptance and multiculturalism.

 

[chieftain]

I was racially attacked (unprovoked in any way) in Hackney a couple of years ago (black on white) luckily an old rasta guy came and helped me out otherwise I think I was heading for a battering... it wasn't very nice and it made me extremely angry

I'd say racism is alive and well in the east end if you scratch the surface

 

[mashedmaryland]

yes but what you go to remember is the ghettos of london are being pushed into the suburbs places like feltham harold hill harlesden etc etc are very poor you scratch the surface and you can still see the poverty in the estates around camden even though its one of the most desierable places to live in London (and west hampstead is a shit hole too )

There are still plenty of front lines in London ! North South East and West

Just out of interest have you always lived in London little baby jesus

 

[littlebabyjesus]

All of these places you mention LBJ may be mixed, but ime of London, every area, N, S, E & W are full of racism.

And it's probably better here than most other parts of UK. Depressing.

 

[Numbers]

In Canning Town you don't need to scratch any surface to see it. Just walk around day to day and you'll see plenty of it. trust me.

 

[waverunner]

I've lived in various places in London over the past couple years, with Streatham being the most recent and current place. I'm happier here than anywhere else partly because I've seen/heard less overt racism and/or snobbish/prejudiced etc behaviour than in other parts of London. Streatham's not without it's problems by any means and of course there is still racism but it's much easier to bumble along here and simply feel that you belong just as much as everyone else because everyone is from everywhere iykwim?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Tolerance is a very different beast to acceptance and multiculturalism.

Good god man, I agree with you!

I'd like to add that over the years I have seen much less open racism from white people towards black people, imo this is for two reasons....

1...They are a lot less ignorant, more tolerant and because the mixed communities they are living in, has meant their children are friends with, have relationships and kids with black people, it has blurred the lines somewhat. These experiences and everyday interactions have actually made it harder to air/have overtly racist views.

2...Over the years the Afro-Caribbean, African and Asian communities are a lot more established now and more often than not will fight back and not let them get away with it...the fear of these communities has increased.

 

[Epicurus]

Is London worse than anywhere else in the UK?

I’ve only lived in London since being in the UK but visited a few other places.