FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Subscription models are dying out. Micropayments are it. They offer everything subs do and more, and they're easier to manage. Subscriptions are very Western.
R.I.P My WoW Character
- Thread starter Cloud
- Start date
Subscription models are dying out. Micropayments are it. They offer everything subs do and more, and they're easier to manage. Subscriptions are very Western.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
How does that work then? Not come across it.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Instead of paying a monthly fee you play for 'free' and they nickle and dime you for everything in the game...
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Most of the new breed are supposedly free-to-play, but you can buy extra credits for, oh, levels, weapons, mounts etc, without having to grind for them. The concept is quite abhorrent to lots of Western players (or so they'd claim in public - of course, loads of them buy gold and so on in private) but I was talking to a guy who ran some games in SE Asia, and he was saying that the kids there didn't give a shit - they were quite happy to buy virtual items and there was no stigma attached to it, any more than there would be buying a new RL gadget.
The micropayment economy is also far more developed in Asia than it is here generally. The Chinese govt cracking down recently is a good example - the QQ coin is economically significant.
So maybe they run on a fairly crude model, which implicitly accepts that in order to get say 60% of your punters playing for the optimum time you have the 10% with the most addictive personalities ruining their lives?
That'd be fairly easy to refine - stop rewarding people after 10 hrs/week.
But maybe the experience of the game for the profitable punters depends on the presence of the 60-hour players?
(Looks at postount. Hmm.)
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Hmm, could you be more specific?
I've only ever really played Eve, so how would micropayments work with a one-big-server spaceship game?
I've only ever really played Eve, so how would micropayments work with a one-big-server spaceship game?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Okay. Bearing in mind that I'm not _vastly_ familiar with Eve, but you'd have a basic setup where you could have free unlimited access.
Then there could be assorted ways to save time by paying for extra resources. Eve, you can level up in skills just by waiting IIRC - say, you could bypass the time required with a small payment. A common method of raising cash is to allow purchase of inworld currency with RL money, too. Or, you would have certain services which required payment - Eve has those hardcore defensive satellite things to protect territory, say, so they'd cost money to maintain, but on the other hand you could add more if you shelled out.
Something like Eve is actually unlikely to go along those lines because it starts to screw existing game balance, and it's a game where that sort of behaviour is considered "unethical" and "cheating". But if it was set up from scratch it could well. And let's face it - it _is_ already possible to get rewards from supposedly "skill-based" games based on your money if you want to.
Take a look at the browser-based Zork game - http://legendsofzork.com/ - and you can see a small example. You can play it for nothing, but you can also spend money to get extras to level faster and get more ancillary benefits. Or, for an appalling example, there are a whole slew of awful "MMOs" on the iPhone which basically require you to (a) spend money on upgrade packs in the App Store and (b) span people with your invite codes, to advance past a certain level.
hegley
never odd or even
Blimey, and the WoW community constantly qq about our game getting dumbed down ...
stupid dogbot
Haughty and Superior
Free Realms is a micropayment environment, iirc.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Ah OK. I was responding to Kid's post.
Still though, you can buy Eve money for real money through official channels and I did a bit of that when I first started. (Subsequently I figured out how to make enough Eve money for my needs using the economics simulation.)
I typically fly a ship called a Vagabond, which used to cost about a fiver in real money and now costs about three quid (assuming optimal fittings, they changed some of the attributes so the pimp fitting is no longer attractive)
I lose maybe one a week on average (or one loss for 8-9 kills roughly). I really don't need any more than that to have fun with and anyone with half a brain can figure out how to make that much in game without grinding for hours once their skills are decent.
I can't help thinking though that it's something to do with Eve being a PvP game where fancy kit quickly runs into diminishing returns and player cunning and skill (and having 10 mates hiding nearby) is much more important. I know a guy who pretty much exclusively flies a ship called a Rifter, accessible to a new player with say 10 days in game and he kills all kinds of crazy stuff with it 'cos he's fiendishly cunning and skilful.
Now I guess this means Eve is probably a weird backwater run by idealistic Icelanders who are looking for a way to live their Viking heritage, but I think it shows that it is possible to create a MMORG that doesn't eat people's lives.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
They pretty much all are, apart from the big established ones with studios behind them. You can't start an MMO these days and expect to get subs off the bat, which means you can't pay anyone, and even a year or two ago, VC supplies were drying up and certainly not equally distributed across the world. Micropayments, though, let you fund yourself continually.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Ahhh, OK. That makes a good deal of sense.
stupid dogbot
Haughty and Superior
Yeah, very true. Sorry, my post's a bit undercooked.
I should have said that it's a heavily backed, big budget MMO, aimed at a big swathe of western - and non western, too, I believe - games players. It'll be interesting to see how it does, although on first look, it seemed too cutesy for my liking.
Mind you, my (ex) girlfriend and I discussed playing it together.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Eve is unusual as a "game"; it doesn't have a lot of non-player-generated content. It doesn't _work_ in the same way as WoW and WoW-a-likes, which provide a huge series of immediate goals, one after the other, with instant rewards for them - and then once you've done those, you end up with basically PvP goals and hope that there's going to be an expansion pack for when the inworld PC content gets dull. (That IMO is where WoW might die - it looks pretty immortal, but it is still to an extent dependent on new dev content, because it restricts user-generated content, partly by having very little persistence - players really can't affect the world much.)
Eve is user-generated for the most part, even if that is within quite strict rules. It is one of the reasons I'm interested in it even if I don't have the time to actually play it - UGC is something that fascinates me.
I couldn't say though that that meant it ruined fewer lives. Just in a different way.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
interestingly enough, blizzard have announced today that they will be introducing faction changes from horde to alliance and vice versa in WoW. for a 'small' fee of course. this is after introducing character namechanges for a fee a couple of years ago, and paid sex changes (plus other re-customisations) about a year ago.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Yeah, very true. Sorry, my post's a bit undercooked.
I should have said that it's a heavily backed, big budget MMO, aimed at a big swathe of western - and non western, too, I believe - games players. It'll be interesting to see how it does, although on first look, it seemed too cutesy for my liking.
Mind you, my (ex) girlfriend and I discussed playing it together.
Micropayments are now generally trendy anyway. I wouldn't expect to see any new game based on subs.
As I said - micropayments can do everything subs can, because you can just pay your subs with micropayments if the setup allows it. Second Life is a good example of this. It started out with people really only being able to own land with subs, but quite soon, the fact that it also had a micropayment economy meant that people rented out land for micropayments (I say "micro" but I paid about $80 last month). Now, subs to the company are much less of an issue.
stupid dogbot
Haughty and Superior
So... how? Races will be able to shift sides? That'll make things... interesting on PvP servers... 
Fridge, $80
Fridge, $80
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Heh, the urge to scream around in an imaginary universe blowing up random strangers (or even better people who already hate my guts) is upon me.
See you later chaps
See you later chaps
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
So... how? Races will be able to shift sides? That'll make things... interesting on PvP servers...
no specific details yet... here's the blue post
"We wanted to give everyone a very early heads-up that, in response to player requests, we’re developing a new service for World of Warcraft that will allow players to change their faction from Alliance to Horde or Horde to Alliance. There’s still much work to do and many details to iron out, but the basic idea is that players will be able to use the service to transform an existing character into a roughly equivalent character of the opposing faction on the same realm. Players who ended up creating and leveling up characters on the opposite factions from their friends have been asking for this type of functionality for some time, and we’re pleased to be getting closer to being able to deliver it.
As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the faction-change service in a way that won’t disrupt the gameplay experience on the realms, and there will be some rules involved with when and how the service can be used. The number of variables involved increases the complexity of implementing this service, but we plan to take the time needed to ensure that it lives up to expectations before officially rolling it out. We’ll go into much more detail on all of this here at World of Warcraft Community Site as development progresses. In the meantime, we wanted to let you know that because this type of functionality requires extensive internal testing well in advance of release, you may be seeing bits and pieces of the service in the test builds we use for the public test realms moving forward."
Is it just me, or does this imply either that they have a seriously shonky database model or this is bullshit to wind up the price that those who wouldn't know an ontology if it hit them upside the head are prepared to pay?
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
neither really, there are lots and lots of things which are faction specific (quests, achievements, mounts, flight paths) as well as things like racial talents to retune in order to prevent flavour of the month race swaps. I'd be very surprised if it made it in before the next big expansion patch (probably sometime in 2010).
It is basically just another way for blizzard to make a lot of cash though. I'm more and more relieved about my decision to quit by the day.
It is basically just another way for blizzard to make a lot of cash though. I'm more and more relieved about my decision to quit by the day.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
<Irrelevant stuff snipped.>
So, does the use of micro-payments tend to cut out addictive grind and hence reduce adverse impact on people's lives?
So, does the use of micro-payments tend to cut out addictive grind and hence reduce adverse impact on people's lives?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I don't know why, but this made me chuckle a little, which is probably inappropriate. We probably shouldn't laugh even at cyber-suicide.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
And yet the question 'why hasn't someone walled off Beachy Head' remains unanswered as people fling themselves and thier kids off of it yearly
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
People jump off the Lion's Gate Bridge, but I haven't heard of throwing any kids.
They can't close it, or how could people get the the British Properties?
There was a jumper on the bridge a few weeks back. A govt minister was caught in the traffic jam, which lasted hours. He made vague noises about how long such traffic tieups should be allowed to continue for.
I wonder if he'd feel that way if it was his mother for instance, up there in the girders? Freakin' asshole.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
There are something like six major bridges in this area.
A couple years back, four of them were tied up at once, with jumpers. The traffic got so bad, that govt workers took porta potties out to the freeways.
I always wondered if those jumpers had gotten together beforehand, and made a plan to go out in a really spectacular style.
A couple years back, four of them were tied up at once, with jumpers. The traffic got so bad, that govt workers took porta potties out to the freeways.
I always wondered if those jumpers had gotten together beforehand, and made a plan to go out in a really spectacular style.
bingiman
Jah Gaza
I thought you were talking about William of Walworth at first...
It all went a bit surreal for a few minutes, until I figured out it was game talk
so it wasn't just me
Cloud
Omar Commin!
Micropayments will be the death of my gaming life.
It's like second life, people expecting tips and always on the take. This is supposed to be something fun, I've been involved in several mod developing circles for games like Unreal Tournament and everyone involved did it, and enjoyed it for free. Ok if you want to buy land and run some show then do it but expecting people to log in and pay you... There's a million and one not so great Dj's out there who would step in for nothing (I'm one of them). This is just a gripe with second life - DJ's asking for tips.
With gaming, MS already have the points system where they basically charge you for everything. It is inevitably coming to gaming but will probably be trialled in a series of games, battlefield heroes from EA being the first if it ever gets off beta.
I think it's a step back for the euro market, it's like going from a decent contract phone to rip off pay as you go.
Can I also add that people who have obviously bought items, especially expensive things, are laughed at in WoW. I can't see the attraction of a game that is bascially asking you to splash around cash and show it off virtually? Cash and time dont tend to go together either, it's been shown in other failed mmorpg's that easy obtainable items or whatnot is a recipe for a rapidly declining player base.
It's like second life, people expecting tips and always on the take. This is supposed to be something fun, I've been involved in several mod developing circles for games like Unreal Tournament and everyone involved did it, and enjoyed it for free. Ok if you want to buy land and run some show then do it but expecting people to log in and pay you... There's a million and one not so great Dj's out there who would step in for nothing (I'm one of them). This is just a gripe with second life - DJ's asking for tips.
With gaming, MS already have the points system where they basically charge you for everything. It is inevitably coming to gaming but will probably be trialled in a series of games, battlefield heroes from EA being the first if it ever gets off beta.
I think it's a step back for the euro market, it's like going from a decent contract phone to rip off pay as you go.
Can I also add that people who have obviously bought items, especially expensive things, are laughed at in WoW. I can't see the attraction of a game that is bascially asking you to splash around cash and show it off virtually? Cash and time dont tend to go together either, it's been shown in other failed mmorpg's that easy obtainable items or whatnot is a recipe for a rapidly declining player base.
Rainingstairs
Well-Known Member
GOOD FOR YOU! My sisters been playing that stupid game for 5 years. Totally wasting her life if you ask me.
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