'Quiet carriage' fury-right or wrong?

[Errol's son]

Cyberfairy was in the wrong as you should not use a mobile in a silent carriage.

The bloke was wrong to complain to Cyberfairy and not the couple.

The couple were just as wrong as Cyberfairy for talking in the silent carriage.

They have silent carriages in Switzerland and they are brilliant when people obey the rules and they generally do in Switzerland.

I like the smoking silent carriage best. Virgin don't doone of those though.

 

[cybertect]

What I don't understand about 'quiet' carriages is that they don't mean you have to be quiet, they mean no mobiles or music. Really loud conversations are just as annoying IMO.

Perhaps, but they're much harder to regulate, particularly when you start getting into annoying-ness of the content of conversations.

 

[cybertect]

They have silent carriages in Switzerland and they are brilliant when people obey the rules and they generally do in Switzerland.

I find the Switzerland almost creepy in that respect. Nothing is out of place.

 

[laptop]

I still don't understand why she didn't get up and walk to the vestibule to make the call

There's much more train noise in the vestibules, to be fair - though that doesn't guarantee that anyone making a call from a carriage clearly labelled "no mobiles" has thought about this, rather than assumed "that means everyone except me".

 

[newbie]

the point about personal technology-mobiles or music- is that they pleasure only one person, and that one person can choose where to indulge themselves. Insisting on inflicting tht choice of personal technology on others, who have made clear that they don't want it, is surely, by definition, selfish?

 

[trashpony]

Perhaps, but they're much harder to regulate, particularly when you start getting into annoying-ness of the content of conversations.

I've had people come round and tell me off for making a call in the quiet carriage - I'd rather they told the bunch of lairy blokes who are getting pissed up to shut up to be honest. And it's annoying if you're not allowed to listen to music to block them out.

Much like cyberfairy, I was just given a seat in a quiet carriage - I didn't ask for it.

 

[Roadkill]

I don't have a problem with the odd quiet conversation. Provided you're not taking the piss (and the OP was not IMHO) then it's not a problem. Kids sitting there playing tinny tunes on their mobiles I'd be annoyed with, but someone making a quick call to arrange a lift is not a problem.

That said, there's nothing to stop you going into the vestibule at the end of the coach.

The TOCs seem to have odd ways of allocating seats, though. When I went down to Exeter in the summer I was given a seat in the quiet coach (without my requesting it), and found it chock-full of football supporters who were already swilling lager at 8 in the morning. Twice the guard came through and asked them to be quiet. When I went to get a cup of tea I found that there were any amount of spare seats further along the train, so I moved, and got chanted at by all of them for my trouble as I left. Wankers.

 

[Herbsman.]

So she says.

I still don't understand why she didn't get up and walk to the vestibule to make the call

...and I still don't understand why you haven't answered my question. People (including you) seem to think it's not ok to talk quietly on a mobile, but having a person next to you somehow makes it OK.

 

[Radar]

Question to those who have sympathy for the bloke. Would you have the same sympathy if Cyberfairy had been quietly talking to someone sitting next to her?

If she was in a "no talking" carriage, then yes

Conversations between passengers are allowed in the quiet carriage, phone calls are not. CF knew that when she took her seat. She had the option of walking to the end of the carriage, but for some strange reason didn't (I say strange because the last time I went up to manc in a quiet carriage I was impressed by the almost 100% adherence to the no phonecalls rule)

 

[Spion]

...and I still don't understand why you haven't answered my question. People (including you) seem to think it's not ok to talk quietly on a mobile, but having a person next to you somehow makes it OK.

When you're talking to someone face to face you can easily regulate your volume to suit the surroundings. People usually talk too loudly on mobiles and conversations are interspersed with ringtones. I guess that's why quiet carriages specifically ban mobiles.

 

[tarannau]

...and I still don't understand why you haven't answered my question. People (including you) seem to think it's not ok to talk quietly on a mobile, but having a person next to you somehow makes it OK.

Because it's an irrelevant question? There are big no mobile signs up and an acceptance/marketing promotion that "Quiet' carriages mean no mobile use.

FWIW I think the guy was a plonker and the policy inconsistent, but it's the blinking railway after all.

 

[beeboo]

The TOCs seem to have odd ways of allocating seats, though. When I went down to Exeter in the summer I was given a seat in the quiet coach (without my requesting it), and found it chock-full of football supporters who were already swilling lager at 8 in the morning. Twice the guard came through and asked them to be quiet. When I went to get a cup of tea I found that there were any amount of spare seats further along the train, so I moved, and got chanted at by all of them for my trouble as I left. Wankers.

To be fair there is no 'are you a football supporter?' option when you book tickets, but you would have thought some common sense could be applied.

Like...

-large groups not seated in the quiet coach

-parties including children not seated in the quiet coach

-quiet coach only filled after other coaches

Or, more simply, just give people the option of choosing or avoiding the quiet coach when they book. I really don't think it is fair at all when you get a booked seat in the quiet coach when you didn't request it. As far as I'm concerned, if you end up in the quiet coach you're not getting full use of the service you paid for - if they don't specify when booking that you can't use your mobile/laptop/mp3 player, it doesn't seem fair that can then be imposed upon you at the time of travel.

If I got allocated a seat on a busy train in the quiet coach when I was expecting to work, I'd demand to be moved to first class

 

[Herbsman.]

But... like I said, I am not interested in 'people' or what happens 'usually'. I am interested in this specific situation, where cyberfairy has said that she was talking quietly, not loudly. There was no mention of ringtones so I don't know why you've brought that up.

 

[Spion]

But... like I said, I am not interested in 'people' or what happens 'usually'. I am interested in this specific situation, where cyberfairy has said that she was talking quietly, not loudly. There was no mention of ringtones so I don't know why you've brought that up.

Quiet carriages ban phones. Which means CF was not allowed to use hers in that situation. The guy was perfectly right to ask her not to. She would have saved herself a whole load of grief if she'd got off her arse, walked past the numerous no mobile phone stickers on the windows, made the call from the vestibule and got her lift sorted.

I raise the issue of voice volume and ringtones because they are the very reason mobiles are banned in those carriages.

 

[Herbsman.]

That may be the case, but you have admitted that you would have no problem if she was talking at the same volume (i.e. quietly) to someone sitting next to her... Now tell me, why would it actually matter in reality, whether someone was talking into a phone or to a person next to them, if the volume of their voice was the same in either situation? Why, if the same level of sound is being made, is a mobile phone conversation inherently worse than a person to person conversation? I find it quite sad that you can't see past the fact that someone broke some rules, to realise the fact that they weren't actually being loud or causing any more disturbance than a normal conversation would.

 

[mattie]

That may be the case, but you have admitted that you would have no problem if she was talking at the same volume (i.e. quietly) to someone sitting next to her... Now tell me, why would it actually matter in reality, whether someone was talking into a phone or to a person next to them, if the volume of their voice was the same in either situation? Why, if the same level of sound is being made, is a mobile phone conversation inherently worse than a person to person conversation? I find it quite sad that you can't see past the fact that someone broke some rules, to realise the fact that they weren't actually being loud or causing any more disturbance than a normal conversation would.

I personally find mobile calls immensely irritating if they're the only non-background noise. A conversation between two people is a relatively steady background, a phone conversation tends to be much more transient, with long silences between sentences. I find them notably more difficult to tune out from than two people talking to each other. Especially if the person on the phone becomes animated - sudden laughter is louder than you might think, and some people are on edge just waiting for it.

 

[laptop]

-quiet coach only filled after other coaches

'Fraid that's called "first class"

 

[Spion]

I think the no mobiles rule in quiet carriages is a good one, which is why I've said the guy is within his rights to ask her not to use her phone.

Why should someone not ask that a perfectly good rule is obeyed? Why should the guy sit there trusting that this person's phone call would not end up being loud when it's quite clear what the rule is in the first place?

I really don't understand either why after being asked to not use the phone CF did not go somewhere else to make the call. That element of cutting your nose off to spite your face makes me think the whole situation was more tense than it needed to be for some reason

 

[cyberfairy]

I had not been able to get signal for most of journey no matter where I moved to and was panicking about lift. My phone which I had put on 'silent' at the beginning of the journey flashed to show incoming call from my flatmate so I answered it straight away and quietly as was worried by time I walked down end of carriage, the signal would have gone or flatmate would have hung up. I talked quietly, the first time I had made a tiny bit of noise in seven hours. The guy who told me off had been tapping on his computer louder.
I would not normally flout the rules and never argue and am a bit ashamed I did tbh but I was stressed, tired and only wanted to get a lift home. I was very quiet, it only happened once and I never asked to be put in the quiet carriage, find them deathly dull but respected the fact I was there for practically the whole journey apart from when I felt I had no real choice. The people behind me made so much more noise chatting. I was on my own.
I will make a point of asking to never be put in a quiet carriage again as found the man precious and pedantic but also somewhat cowardly. I regret making a quiet polite fuss, I should no have and would not do so again but also regret that people can be so rigid.
My low voice made less noise than the sound of the guys computer.

 

[mattie]

CF, assuming that the other person was also delayed, I suspect he may have been a bit stressed as well. It also may be that he finds phone conversations in his vicinity disturbing. It may also be that he had no real notion of your situation.

All of these things, added together, may suggest why he was a short with you. I really wouldn't let it bother you.

 

[cyberfairy]

CF, assuming that the other person was also delayed, I suspect he may have been a bit stressed as well. It also may be that he finds phone conversations in his vicinity disturbing. It may also be that he had no real notion of your situation.

All of these things, added together, may suggest why he was a short with you. I really wouldn't let it bother you.

I know. I am now actually more upset and annoyed with myself than him. Think I was the ruder one in retrospect and was technically in the wrong. I can't apologise and still think he was being pedantic but am feeling guilty today. Not one for confrontations, no matter how tiny and has left an unpleasant taste.

 

[Spion]

Sounds to me like you could do with ways of dealing with confrontations. Not necessarily seing things as confrontation and being able to deal with things calmly is possibly the way forward - but it's not always easy I know

 

[beeboo]

The guy who told me off had been tapping on his computer louder.
.

He was using a computer?! for pities sake - isn't that 'banned' along with mobile phones? I thought the rules were about 'electronic equipment'?

I can't believe he was using a laptop and had the audacity to pull you up about making a swift phone call.

Also I think the fact you were *answering* a call is different to *making* a call. If you'd been making a call I'd be inclined to say you'd have been better off hanging about in the vestibules and waiting to get a signal. As it was I don't think you were being unreasonable at all.

 

[cyberfairy]

What did he actually say?

He said , 'this is a quiet carriage' or words to that effect. Can't really remember, going to try not to think about it too much now as do feel bad in light of day, especially after reading dsome of the comments. I will stick to being wimp

 

[cyberfairy]

Sounds to me like you could do with ways of dealing with confrontations. Not necessarily seing things as confrontation and being able to deal with things calmly is possibly the way forward - but it's not always easy I know

I normally cry and run away

 

[cyberfairy]

He was using a computer?! for pities sake - isn't that 'banned' along with mobile phones? I thought the rules were about 'electronic equipment'?

I can't believe he was using a laptop and had the audacity to pull you up about making a swift phone call.

Also I think the fact you were *answering* a call is different to *making* a call. If you'd been making a call I'd be inclined to say you'd have been better off hanging about in the vestibules and waiting to get a signal. As it was I don't think you were being unreasonable at all.

I obviously embarressed him, the same as he embarressed me and yes, think computers are allowed in quiet carriages. I won't be going on one again though! I like listening to conversations and engaging in them on long journeys. Passes the time and can be dead interesting though do get annoyed with constant ring tones-some of which were going off in quiet carriage near me but he didn't pick on them-just the five foot nothing girl on her own who had been wrapped up in a book for virtually the whole journey and that's what made me see red

 

[detective-boy]

I find it quite sad that you can't see past the fact that someone broke some rules, to realise the fact that they weren't actually being loud or causing any more disturbance than a normal conversation would.

Such blind aderhence to "the rules" in total disregard of any common sense, is becoming of a Westminster Parking Attendant!

If a police officer encountered an offence being committed in such a "technical" fashion, I would expect them to exercise their discretion ... and ignore it.

 

[newbie]

Also I think the fact you were *answering* a call is different to *making* a call.

this is getting a bit uncomfortable as I don't suppose anyone wants cyberfairy to feel bad, and the discussion runs that risk.

having said that...nah, don't agree. For an able-bodied person to answer the phone "hang on a sec" and move out of earshot isn't hard. Someone who is elderly or has mobility problems would reasonably expect to be cut some slack on that, of course.

 

[beeboo]

I obviously embarressed him, the same as he embarressed me and yes, think computers are allowed in quiet carriages. I won't be going on one again though! I like listening to conversations and engaging in them on long journeys. Passes the time and can be dead interesting though do get annoyed with constant ring tones-some of which were going off in quiet carriage near me but he didn't pick on them-just the five foot nothing girl on her own who had been wrapped up in a book for virtually the whole journey and that's what made me see red

Maybe it depends on the train company but some certainly make it explicit that all electronic equipment (mobiles, laptops, stereos, games consoles etc) are all banned in the quiet carriage.

I think the whole notion of equating 'quiet' with 'no technology' is incredibly backward, and like pembrokestephen said, harks back to the early days of mobile phones.

 

[cyberfairy]

this is getting a bit uncomfortable as I don't suppose anyone wants cyberfairy to feel bad, and the discussion runs that risk.

having said that...nah, don't agree. For an able-bodied person to answer the phone "hang on a sec" and move out of earshot isn't hard. Someone who is elderly or has mobility problems would reasonably expect to be cut some slack on that, of course.

I was scared the sporadic signal would dissapear by time I got to end of carriage. I had tried to make a phonecall out there previously and it had not gone through. I just didn't think it would be such a big deal. As I said, other people had been nattering to each other and answering phonecalls and nobody had said anything.
I have learnt my lesson now though