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Question about Thatcher

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not denying for one second that the crash in the 1970s was inevitable - I'm as aware of both the bourgeoise and Marxist accounts for why this happens in Capitalism; I was merely pointing out the specifics of the 70s crash, which was precipitated by the oil crises - had the US and Europe been able to maintain their quasi-Imperial hegemony over the oil states in the ME, it would have been later over something else. And since this is the crash we're talking about, it made sense to talk specfically about the changing global situation in the 1970s rather than more generically about the cyclical nature of capitalist markets.

The post-war boom was precisely made possible because of the post-Empire period, where the US felt it could achieve the degree of power and control over the world that the European powers had, but without resorting to mass force and occupation; relying on coercion and subversion instead. However, the post-war period was also the time when the Roman model for empires was crumbling around the world, and the 'virtual empire' the US tried (and has repeatedly tried) to achieve was exactly that - virtual. Much as the power of the European states was built on their Empires (and indeed the financial cushion they provided enabled the basis of the welfare states to happen at all), the post-war boom was built on cheap oil, and once that went, the boom went as well.

Besides, oil is fundamental. It's the most fundamental economic commodity in our society.
I'm sorry, I don't understand your post.:confused:

Your original response to my post "RMP3 - top post, but again, you're missing the main trick." I'm not sure it was a top post. The Point I was trying to make was little to do with the economy, and the causes of the recession. I was trying to answer isitmes question about Thatcher and Blairs landslides'. My fundamental point was that what Thatcher represented was merely a change in tactics of the ruling class from the " hidden class war" to the "open class war". Faced with a watershed in capitalist history, the ruling class within Britain, and throughout the world had been divided on how to respond, and Thatcherism and Reaganomics had united the ruling class with a common agenda. The main nature of the change that Thatcher represented, was a change in the balance of class forces, and Tony Blair did not do anything significantly different because he and New Labour merely represents a continuation in that change in the balance of class forces.

However, with regards to the economy, I still don't understand your point. If you agree the end of the postwar boom was inevitable with or without the oil crisis, why did you say "RMP3 - top post, but again, you're missing the main trick." And then go one about the oil crisis as if it was the main trick? I don't understand this at all.

The main trick is always A Tendency For The Rate Of Profit To Fall. The GLOBAL fall in the rate of profit can can been measured before the oil crisis, fact. The fundamental cause of the postwar boom was not cheap oil, it was the circumvention of profit from "over investment" to arms spending. This was made possible by the bipolar imperialism of the Cold War, but undermined by the non arms spending economies of Japan and Germany, to put it in at a very inadequate neo-marxist nutshell.
 
you can measure the temperature of water, and predict that at 100 degrees Fahrenheit the water will boil, so that is a scientific fact. Class war is equally measurable, and can be used two make predictions, so how is it not a scientific fact?

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I agree with you.

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I'm not saying the details should be ignored, but Marx was originally a philosopher. Philosophers look up for the ETERNAL truths.

You agree with a comment that class war is the story of humanity since we moved on from being hunter-gatherers. Doesn't sound like a particularly eternal truth, then.

Any predictions for when the eternal truth is going to end?
 
but what I don't understand is how labour weren't in a position to attack this consensus in 1997 like she was in 1979

they got elected with a massive majority on the promise of reversing a lot of thatcherite policies, but when it came down to it they even try to

I just don't understand why this massive shift happened at that point in time?

Because the party had been taken over by yuppies by then. Why else would the Sun start supporting them rather than the Tories?
 
i do have to say though, isitme brings up a good point. if thatcher's behaviour/policies were so risky then how come tehey were allowed to proceed with so little in the way of amendment?
 
i do have to say though, isitme brings up a good point. if thatcher's behaviour/policies were so risky then how come tehey were allowed to proceed with so little in the way of amendment?
The thread does a good job of addressing isitme's question, as far as I recall. Yours seems a little different: risky to whom? And who would be doing the amending?
 
i do have to say though, isitme brings up a good point. if thatcher's behaviour/policies were so risky then how come tehey were allowed to proceed with so little in the way of amendment?
Because of the majority (as much a function of Labour's perceived uselessness at the time as of Conservative "strength") Thatcher had, many policies were allowed to proceed because they didn't have much effect on those voting them through the house. Why amend policies that you agree with, and which won't have any direct effect on you?
 
IIRC, there was also a chnage in the composition of Conservative MPs. With less "Squire of the manor" types who had a peternalist attitude toward wheeer-dealer estate agent types who didn't give flying fuck. Which is why there was perhaps less attempts to modify her bills.
 
IIRC, there was also a chnage in the composition of Conservative MPs. With less "Squire of the manor" types who had a peternalist attitude toward wheeer-dealer estate agent types who didn't give flying fuck. Which is why there was perhaps less attempts to modify her bills.
Well, she certainly let the "one nation" tories (your paternalists, for the most part) know in no uncertain terms that their idea of Conservatism wasn't what she was about, hence the "wets" tag. Thing is, while some of her policies did offend the "one nation" crew, it didn't offend (or effect) them enough for them to do anything but shrug their shoulders.
 
If she had actually given a fuck about Britain as a nation of different and differing peoples rather than Britain as a home for "business".

Exactly. For example, when I think of what Barbara Castle managed to achieve with the Equal Pay Act contrasted with SFA that Thatcher did for equality.
 
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