Putin's Russia

[ska invita]

Apols for the old bump, but couldnt find anywhere else suitable for this:
Russia: Activists held over 'invisible posters'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26887194



Six activists have been detained near the Kremlin in Moscow for holding "invisible posters" and calling for the release of other protesters detained earlier, it appears.
The group was detained on Sunday in Manezhnaya Square and were holding out their hands as if they were carrying invisible signs, the Grani.ru news website reports.
"Our invisible posters read: Free the 6 May prisoners!" one protester says in a video. "Because a man was detained earlier holding a poster you could see, we are now holding invisible posters." But the woman is taken away by police and she can be heard saying "You are breaking the law!" as she is dragged away.
The group was protesting against the earlier jailing of anti-Putin demonstrators - part of what is now called the Bolotnaya Square case - in which a group of activists were jailed for protesting against the inauguration of Vladimir Putin for a third presidential term.
On 6 May 2012, as many as 650 "Bolotnaya" demonstrators were detained and 28 sentenced. Protests are held in their name on the sixth day of every month.

 

[Humberto]

.

 

[Humberto]

good bump

 

[Casually Red]

As with any powerful Russian today, he had links with the old Communist state. Russia is a great example of an oligarchical society, those who had power and influence under the Soviet system quickly grabbed up what was available under the new Capitalist system. The whole process over who owned what or who ran what didn't run along your typical democratic way, those who were in a position to take power grabbed it and Putin was one of those people.

I dont agree at all . Theres absolutely nothing pointing towards Putin having helped himself to state assets or anything like that. When he came to power Russia had just been through its 5th or 6th premier in the space of just over a year, hed avoided both politics and business and stayed in the intelligence services throughout the worst post soviet chaos .

There was nothing to indicate at the time hed last longer than any of his predecessors. They even got his name wrong when they were voting for him . He was just seen as a dutiful functionary with a security background as opposed to a business and corruption background who wouldnt rock the boat and mightnt take as many bribes as his predecessors. There would have been very few who even wanted the job back then, Russia was in a complete mess and taking the job was a ticket to being blamed and hated for it .
And after he took power he put an end to that chaotic process your talking about. Even the oligarchs who initially backed him got badly burned .Richest man in Russia cleaned out and turfed in jail as well .
Russias far from perfect under him but hes unmistakably turned the place around , transformed it from a laughing stock were people never even got paid or if they did it was months late . Worthless pensions and gangster rule. Its not like that any more, and nobodys laughing at them thats for sure.

 

[Casually Red]

Apols for the old bump, but couldnt find anywhere else suitable for this:
Russia: Activists held over 'invisible posters'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26887194



Six activists have been detained near the Kremlin in Moscow for holding "invisible posters" and calling for the release of other protesters detained earlier, it appears.
The group was detained on Sunday in Manezhnaya Square and were holding out their hands as if they were carrying invisible signs, the Grani.ru news website reports.
"Our invisible posters read: Free the 6 May prisoners!" one protester says in a video. "Because a man was detained earlier holding a poster you could see, we are now holding invisible posters." But the woman is taken away by police and she can be heard saying "You are breaking the law!" as she is dragged away.
The group was protesting against the earlier jailing of anti-Putin demonstrators - part of what is now called the Bolotnaya Square case - in which a group of activists were jailed for protesting against the inauguration of Vladimir Putin for a third presidential term.
On 6 May 2012, as many as 650 "Bolotnaya" demonstrators were detained and 28 sentenced. Protests are held in their name on the sixth day of every month.

theres no mention there of the group of activists name or organisation . So we cant really determine which foreign governments and NGOs theyre linked to or who might be funding and training them . Which as we now know is a tried and tested method of destabilisation which the US spent 5 billion on in Ukraine alone . We should all be well versed by now in the likes of Otpor, colour revolutions for hire, NED, USAID and all that shit .
Personally Ive no difficulty with Russia, Cuba, Venezuela or anywhere else for that matter arresting proxies of foreign powers. No matter what stunt it is theyre pulling for the western media.

 

[DownwardDog]

Theres absolutely nothing pointing towards Putin having helped himself to state assets or anything like that.

Yes, his lifestyle is completely consistent with someone who earns $200k pa. He owns a million dollars worth of watches!

 

[DotCommunist]

well that's the thing with all country leaders, they give it man of the people and unconvincingly hold a pint before getting into a gold plated Ferrari and going back to the mansion to snort proper good marching powder from the small of the back of whoever they are fucking this week

thats what these people do.

He was, in fact, characteristic of the best type of dominant male in the world at this time. He was fifty-five years old, tough, shrewd, unburdened by the complicated ethical ambiguities which puzzle intellectuals, and had long ago decided that the world was a mean son-of-a-bitch in which only the most cunning and ruthless can survive. He was also as kind as was possible for one holding that ultra-Darwinian philosophy; and he genuinely loved children and dogs, unless they were on the site of something that had to be bombed in the National Interest. He still retained some sense of humor, despite the burdens of his almost godly office, and, although he had been impotent with his wife for nearly ten years now, he generally achieved orgasm in the mouth of a skilled prostitute within 1.5 minutes. He took amphetamine pep pills to keep going on his grueling twenty-hour day, with the result that his vision of the world was somewhat skewed in a paranoid direction, and he took tranquilizers to keep from worrying too much, with the result that his detachment sometimes bordered on the schizophrenic; but most of the time his innate shrewdness gave him a fingernail grip on reality. In short, he was much like the rulers of America and Russia.

 

[ska invita]

theres no mention there of the group of activists name or organisation . So we cant really determine which foreign governments and NGOs theyre linked to or who might be funding and training them . Which as we now know is a tried and tested method of destabilisation which the US spent 5 billion on in Ukraine alone . We should all be well versed by now in the likes of Otpor, colour revolutions for hire, NED, USAID and all that shit .
Personally Ive no difficulty with Russia, Cuba, Venezuela or anywhere else for that matter arresting proxies of foreign powers. No matter what stunt it is theyre pulling for the western media.

you have a point, but its a convenient argument too, you must realise, in which all dissent is The Great Satan. Very handy for all dictators

 

[seventh bullet]

I dont agree at all . Theres absolutely nothing pointing towards Putin having helped himself to state assets or anything like that. When he came to power Russia had just been through its 5th or 6th premier in the space of just over a year, hed avoided both politics and business and stayed in the intelligence services throughout the worst post soviet chaos .

There was nothing to indicate at the time hed last longer than any of his predecessors. They even got his name wrong when they were voting for him . He was just seen as a dutiful functionary with a security background as opposed to a business and corruption background who wouldnt rock the boat and mightnt take as many bribes as his predecessors. There would have been very few who even wanted the job back then, Russia was in a complete mess and taking the job was a ticket to being blamed and hated for it .
And after he took power he put an end to that chaotic process your talking about. Even the oligarchs who initially backed him got badly burned .Richest man in Russia cleaned out and turfed in jail as well .
Russias far from perfect under him but hes unmistakably turned the place around , transformed it from a laughing stock were people never even got paid or if they did it was months late . Worthless pensions and gangster rule. Its not like that any more, and nobodys laughing at them thats for sure.

You are one very naive child.

 

[Casually Red]

Yes, his lifestyle is completely consistent with someone who earns $200k pa. He owns a million dollars worth of watches!

according to a Youtube video, no less, thats been accepted as factual evidence by the likes of the daily mail. By the same group who also claim hes the richest man in the world. No less.

A man whos rubbed shoulders as ahead of state with everyone from the Sultan of Brunei to Colonel Ghadaffi over the past 15 years may well have been given a few gifts along the way . Including a few fancy watches . It goes with the territory . Tito has a mausoleum crammed with them .

We know from the wikileaks cables even the CIA cant pin any corruption on him . Even they with all their resources have no evidence of him amassing wealth from any source . AT most they have a strong suspicion he has an interest in trading brokerage Gunvor, thats recently been sanctioned . But thats only because one his martial arts club mates has a major stake in it ,theres still absolutely no evidence of it . Its nothing more than a rumour .
Not even the oligarchs hes burned have been able to say he took a bung or bribe from them , and theyve accused him of a lot worse including mass murder. Thats not to say hes squeaky clean . Simply to say that if your going to make an accusation of corruption you need a bit more than a ropey youtube video to prove it .

Id accept theres a strong case to be made against him for nepotism, certainly . But as regards personal corruption nobodys been able to make that case in 15 years . Despite those whod like to having pretty mindboggling resources .

 

[Casually Red]

you have a point, but its a convenient argument too, you must realise, in which all dissent is The Great Satan. Very handy for all dictators

And indeed you have a point there . But we should also remember that these twitter types habitually refer to troublesome non western freindly leaders who actually get elected instead of them as dictators. As we have seen in Venezuela , twice, and ongoing . And recently in Ukraine . Which is habitually their justification for engaging in subversion and treason .

and we should also note that in that photo the only people appearing to turn up to see them are media , And perhaps accept its little more than a media stunt . The Women in White losers in Cuba regularly pull the very same one . You arent even allowed to smoke a cigarette in Red Square . They know full well anyone turning up there to protest will immediately be arrested . Its what they want , the point of the exercise.

 

[ska invita]

The thing is we're talking about Putin here, and unlike Venezuela Russian elections are deeply sus, and freedom of speech and right to protest are shat on. You may be happy to brush this off as justifiable self defence, Im not.

 

[Casually Red]

The thing is we're talking about Putin here, and unlike Venezuela Russian elections are deeply sus, and freedom of speech and right to protest are shat on. You may be happy to brush this off as justifiable self defence, Im not.

the exact same allegations are made against Venezuela. Every election result from there is declared sus . The United states refused to recognise the last one . As did the opposition . And all the ones before that had something wrong with them, freedom of speech denied, tv stations closed down, protestors persecuted, massacred, opponents jailed . All the same accusations by people funded from the same sources .
But one thing there can be zero doubt about in my mind is Putins consistently strong popularity rating among Russians . He certainly hasnt fixed that one . And I tend to bear that in mind when western funded liberals start shouting dictator .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the exact same allegations are made against Venezuela. Every election result from there is declared sus .

No it's not. Independent observers have consistently declared them fair.

How many journalists did Chavez murder for challenging him? None as far as I know. The comparison with Venezuela is fatuous on about 20 different levels.

 

[Casually Red]

No it's not. Independent observers have consistently declared them fair.

How many journalists did Chavez murder for challenging him? None as far as I know. The comparison with Venezuela is fatuous on about 20 different levels.

prove Putin murdered anyone .

The comparison is valid . Otherwise your blind to everything everyone from Human Rights Watch to AlJazeera has been spouting off against Venezuela for the past 15 years . Its the same shit everytime someone the west doesnt want to win wins an election . They pumped billions into the opposition therefore the result has to be a fraud .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

prove Putin murdered anyone .

Really? You dispute this? Wow, ok.

 

[DownwardDog]

according to a Youtube video, no less, thats been accepted as factual evidence by the likes of the daily mail. By the same group who also claim hes the richest man in the world. No less.

I've never seen the Youtube thing. I read it in a German watch magazine which had photos of Vovochka wearing various watches and added up their value. Impeccable source.

 

[Casually Red]

 

[teqniq]

according to a Youtube video, no less, thats been accepted as factual evidence by the likes of the daily mail...

Doctor, my sides.

 

[ska invita]

the exact same allegations are made against Venezuela.

lbj already said it, they couldn't be more different. You know that well enough im sure. Venezuela is a model of fair and frequent elections, Russia to put it mildly is not.

How do you feel about UK left groups who receive/d funding from Russia/Libya etc - should their members have been arrested at any sign of dissension?

 

[Yata]

what do you think about this?

 

[yield]

Spoiler: ct

what do you think about this?

What do you think about it?

 

[ska invita]

I presume thats the Katyn crash... FWIW: Polish people Ive spoken to say that despite the fact it blatantly sets off every conspiracy alarm, its been gone over endlessly over the last few years and everyone ive spoken to (about 4 people) all say it looks like an accident. Its still used as an issue in polish electoral campaigning

 

[Yata]

What do you think about it?

russian voices, gunshots, plane wreckage. then after the fact, a sudden epidemic of accidents, murders and heart attacks
Putins critics dont seem to last very long, if I were Polish I'd say it definitely looked like an accident too

 

[yield]

russian voices, gunshots, plane wreckage. then after the fact, a sudden epidemic of accidents, murders and heart attacks
Putins critics dont seem to last very long, if I were Polish I'd say it definitely looked like an accident too

I'd be more suspicious if there were Polish voices then gunshots.

It could well have been Russian airport guards shooting at people who'd gone to investigate the plane crash like the video maker had.

The Polish plane was trying to land in thick fog. They should've turned around. Putin was no friend of Kaczorowski butI think it was an accident.

I agree about Russia. Look what happened to Anna Politkovskaya. I've had enough of conspiracy theories though.

Edit to add. I thought this old LRB about Vladislav Surkov was interesting.

Newly translated postmodernist texts give philosophical weight to the Surkovian power model. François Lyotard, the French theoretician of postmodernism, began to be translated in Russia only towards the end of the 1990s, at exactly the time Surkov joined the government.

The author of Almost Zero loves to invoke such Lyotardian concepts as the breakdown of grand cultural narratives and the fragmentation of truth: ideas that still sound quite fresh in Russia.

One blogger has noted that ‘the number of references to Derrida in political discourse is growing beyond all reasonable bounds. At a recent conference the Duma deputy Ivanov quoted Derrida three times and Lacan twice.’

In an echo of socialism’s fate in the early 20th century, Russia has adopted a fashionable, supposedly liberational Western intellectual movement and transformed it into an instrument of oppression.

 

[ska invita]

Yeah lets not get into it here please - no amount of pages of posting will get us any closer to the truth than we already are.

 

[Casually Red]

It could well have been Russian airport guards shooting at people who'd gone to investigate the plane crash like the video maker had.

or it could have been the planes battery systems and electrics exploding . Basically its some bangs immediately after a catastrophic plane crash .

 

[Humberto]

I dont agree at all . Theres absolutely nothing pointing towards Putin having helped himself to state assets or anything like that. When he came to power Russia had just been through its 5th or 6th premier in the space of just over a year, hed avoided both politics and business and stayed in the intelligence services throughout the worst post soviet chaos .

There was nothing to indicate at the time hed last longer than any of his predecessors. They even got his name wrong when they were voting for him . He was just seen as a dutiful functionary with a security background as opposed to a business and corruption background who wouldnt rock the boat and mightnt take as many bribes as his predecessors. There would have been very few who even wanted the job back then, Russia was in a complete mess and taking the job was a ticket to being blamed and hated for it .
And after he took power he put an end to that chaotic process your talking about. Even the oligarchs who initially backed him got badly burned .Richest man in Russia cleaned out and turfed in jail as well .
Russias far from perfect under him but hes unmistakably turned the place around , transformed it from a laughing stock were people never even got paid or if they did it was months late . Worthless pensions and gangster rule. Its not like that any more, and nobodys laughing at them thats for sure.

Do you think you would want him in charge yourself if you were Russian? You do make a good argument there ('nobody is laughing at them now').

Isn't the fact that he is STILL in charge an indication that democrtaic institutions have been subverted? As have press freedoms rather brutally.

 

[Casually Red]

Do you think you would want him in charge yourself if you were Russian? You do make a good argument there ('nobody is laughing at them now').

Isn't the fact that he is STILL in charge an indication that democrtaic institutions have been subverted? As have press freedoms rather brutally.

Firstly Im firmly of the opinion Putin is in charge of Russia first and last due to the fact hes extremely popular amongst Russians. I dont equate western systems with democracy either , tick a box every few years with your liar of choice who believes in the same things pretty much as all the other liar factions. Then fuck off home. I dont see the great attraction in that system and certainly no superiority . The same side generally always wins.

As regards press freedoms when I see the control of the likes of Murdoch globally, and that basically none of the western media bar the very odd lone voice like Pilger or Fisk are prepared to go off message Im of the view that western press freedoms are a joke. Same too when I hear the utter vitriol heaped on RT by fellow journalists while they peddle all sorts of NATO regime lies with straight faces. Im not remotely sorry to see various oligarchs pet mouthpieces taken off them .Im not sorry to see would be NATO and white house mouth pieces gagged. Nor am I sorry to see this lot run into serious trouble either.

http://rt.com/politics/leningrad-russia-siege-dozhd-284/

because that strikes me as a definite agenda, one of undermining Russian national solidarity and ultimately its sovereignty, subverting sovereignty from within . And Russia has the right to protect itself from those pushing a hostile foreign agenda . Just as Cuba Venezuela and others do too . The media is most definitely a weapon utilised by the western powers, to great effect . It very often gets them what they want, its been proven time and again they are masters at manipulating it to get the result they want. So how does a state counter that without limitting and controlling press freedoms ? Are you seriously suggesting they should let the media peddle whatever line they want when we know exactly the line the western powers would have their bought and paid for elements peddle ?

The wests agenda in my view has been to do exactly what Dick Cheney and his gang sought to do at the break up of the soviet union . To ensure Russia was fragmented chaotic and weak and unable to assert itself on the world stage ever again . Thats why they loved the drunken bum Yeltsin so much. And one of the methods theyll use to foment chronic instability and the spreading of lies is a liberal west freindly media with the same values as their own wholl spread the lies they want them to spread. We can see were that leads in Venezuela and other places. And Russia doesnt need that in my view.

In my view what Russia desperately is in need of right now is its stability and its sovereignty. Without that as a basis no civilised and dignified political system ever has a hope of emerging or defending itself from western subversion , which has the aim of Russias destruction. And on the wider geopolitical sphere only a stable and sovereign Russia has a hope of challenging western hegemony and providing a backbone for global alliances against it. Putin has definitely brought the basis of a more dignified political system than what went before, which was laissez faire provided you had the billions . Just as it is in the west. It needs to develop into something a hell of a lot better . But the basis is there in my view when it wasnt before.

Id like to think ultimately were I Russian Id probably be a communist but still respect Putin on certain issues of agreement . Namely the defence of Russian sovereignty and challenging western aggression against Russia and its unipolar hegemony accross the globe. Something I believe Putin has done a reasonably good job at. Apart from failing to stop that gullible fool Medvedev from dropping the ball over Libya when Putin was out of power.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

gangster rule. Its not like that any more,.

This documentary would suggest otherwise.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/thieves-by-law/

When the Soviet Union imploded at the end of the 1980s the resulting power vacuum allowed the mob to acquire enormous power extremely quickly. With the government unable to enforce the laws, with the old Soviet power structure discredited, with business establishments transitioning from collectives to private ownership, this was a prime opportunity for the mob to grab power. And seldom has organized crime become such a powerful societal force and seldom has the violence been as extreme as in Russia.

With the Russian mafia growing stronger, the dominant gangs moved from the basic protection rackets to partnering with legitimate businesses. Whereas in the 1990s, we are told in the film, mobsters tended to kill each other, by the 2000s they were killing businessmen. Well, sort of. The businessmen were often themselves gangsters, or at least partners of gangsters. The Mafia had penetrated nearly every sector of the economy - banking, energy, trade companies, etc.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stewart-nusbaumer/huffpost-review-emthieves_b_550643.html