FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Not in that particular usage I think.
"put people first" demo saturday march 28th london
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Not in that particular usage I think.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I know, just a shot across the bows of those idiots who think simply saying the term is abusive and an infringement of their rights.
No, sadly it isn't imo, its a cobbled together event funded by the City Circle:, a group of City lawyers, accountants, and the usual lash up with the MCB: friends of the Muslim Brotherhood, amongst others. There seems to be nothing on the housing crisis, welfare cuts, the Post Office privatisation, . I do wonder when we are going to see major conferences on the domestic crisis and i say that as someone who is a member of the WDM, one of the above's organisers.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Perhaps it does. But then we're all middle class then, assuming we have jobs or sign on. Except him, who presumably lives a Robin Hood-like existence stealing from the rich and giving to the poor and only working with people who have no connection whatsoever to anything that supports the structural interests of the middle classes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't understand that.
edit: thats like saying there's no politics that are in the structural interest of the bosses either
(if i've read what you're saying correctly)
edit: thats like saying there's no politics that are in the structural interest of the bosses either
(if i've read what you're saying correctly)
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Hmm, i'll try and explain myself a bit better - if society can be said to be structured in the interests of the middle classes, then all of us are automatically going to be working in the interests of the middle class (if we have jobs or are part of the necessary unemployment line). I have a job, and pay taxes, and therefore I am, whether I like it or not, working in the interests of the middle classes. Which kind of makes that line of criticism a bit silly, because if brasic won't work with anyone "middle class", by this definition he won't work with anyone at all (unless they've dropped out of society completely).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I wasn't saying that society is structured in the interests of the middle class - it's a battle ground and one of the positions is one that furthers middle class interests against those of the w/c - without identify the m/c as the boss class. That's what i meant.
Of course, just living in this society means operating in the interests of capital, i would not disagree but that's a different sort of 'interest' - and a very diff sort of m/c and class relationship.
(Oh yeah, and my point had nothing to with brassic's arguments really. S/he's not worth the time atm)
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
The term in 2 instances was used by that poster as a clear pejorative. It is devoid of meaning except for prejudice. It is also simplistic and insulting to non middle class people to imply that they dont share the same concerns.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Take it up with that poster then - i made clear that i wasn't referring to him or his arguments in my reply to FM last night. Or i hope i did. If i didn't, i wasn't.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Ah yes, I see what you mean, and I quite agree. I'm just trying to show how utterly pointless brasic's gobbledegook is. They and e1986 should go an hang out together. They can play prolier-than-thou with each other until the cows go home. Except, of course, that cows are part of the middle class farming system, so they might want to find a working class equivalent animal to go home.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Actually this is the sort of brush it under the carpet w're all the same nonsense that rubbish like brassics allows to sneak by unoticed. Whilst their are many common intersts of the w/c those of the m/c are predicated on the existance of the w/c and those of the w/c on the abolitiion of itself. Hence the structuraly different interests (and by m/c i don't mean posh people whose habits annoy me, not the 'culturaly middle class' )
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I am.
complete and utter pointless reactionary rubbish demonstrating against somthing is easy - constructing a socially inclusive and realisiticly valid alternative should be the aim of the usual self appointed great thinkers on urban and are the unions involved the ones who are pro welfare reform?you will be boxed in and the more radicla amongst you will end up on the criminal database and you will have achieved what exactly 2 minitues on the national news? No this is all a waste of time and energy which imo should be put into forming meaningfull long term stratgies instead what we have is a short term desposabale event which just reflects the general short term thinking which underlies most of the world troubles
Lot's of people attending will be middle-class people engaging in a protest for their first time. I think there is something positive to be said about getting people involved in any form of politics, even if as you suggest the chances of a meaningfull chance are pretty slim.
I'd be interested in hearing your ideas of how we encourage in what you term the working class to engage in long term stragtegies.
PS
Are we not all middle-class now anyway?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who says
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No it doesn't.
Can you provide me with some weighty analysis of the socio-economic trends of those attending this protest? Otherwise until you falsify my claim I stand by my assertion that many people attending will be middle-class and on their first protest.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I agree there are structually different interests and appreciate you making the the differentation from the "culture" issue.
But I wonder if so many of the m/c interests are predicated on the existance of the w/c. It's still really muddled to be honest. large sections of the m/c sell their labour anyway.
The m/c and w/c both have a tendency to be overworked and exploited, yes the m/c gain more from pensions / investments as a result of that exploitation (or lose more, as this the case now)
There is a case that the m/c has been utterly scammed just as much as the w/c and are just as likely to be angry.
I hope this demo and surrounding events are incredibly broad because what is happening at G20 is illegitimate and probably inherently corrupt.
It is to the cost of most people of most classes, and to the likely benefit of the narrow banking elite who will rig their new world order and the muppet politicians who will talk about how strong they are for going along with it.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Can you provide me with some weighty analysis of the socio-economic trends of those attending this protest? Otherwise until you falsify my claim I stand by my assertion that many people attending will be middle-class and on their first protest.
The only thorough survey I am aware of re demo attendance was one carried out on the manchester Stop the War demo at the beginning of last years labour conference.
That DID actually find a fairly high proportion of people (around 20% iirr) who were on their first demo.
However, as that was in a place where it is unusual to have a big national demo (most of those on their first demo were mancs) I would expect a significantly lower percentage to be demonstrating for the first time in London.
there will be a few, of course, but I'd reckon on 10% tops
Talkie Toaster
New Member
What would be the problem if many of the people attending were middle class and on their first demo?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Can you provide me with some weighty analysis of the socio-economic trends of those attending this protest? Otherwise until you falsify my claim I stand by my assertion that many people attending will be middle-class and on their first protest.
You can stand where you like but nothing makes you right at all.......
You can stand where you like but nothing makes you right at all.......
If the Trade Unions are trying to get everyone out then there is in my view a strong chance that many people on this protest will be on their first one. The point i'm trying to make is that we shouldn't be so quick to knock things like this, if it gets people engaged in politics then that can only be a good thing.
The more cynical and hardened political activist know that change either comes from playing the system through political lobbying and applying pressure on politicans via the media or being in a position of power where you an take direct action (including striking).
No seeing as the middle-clases probably wield more political power and infulence it would be a very good thing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Can you provide me with some weighty analysis of the socio-economic trends of those attending this protest? Otherwise until you falsify my claim I stand by my assertion that many people attending will be middle-class and on their first protest.
That's it. You do what the nice policeman tells you to.
That if they had not already they would adopt the snobbish attitude of a lot o fthe posters on here
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
As opposed to the inverted snobbery and dogmatic attitudes you seem to be displaying, methinks.
What exactly do you want? A protest movement that is conformist with your particular ideology (and thus exclusive to anybody that isn't)? Or a broader movement that involves the many rather than just a few which may lead to you, shock horror, having to work alongside people whose ideology doesn't match perfectly with your own?
Similar threads
- Poll