"put people first" demo saturday march 28th london

[kittyP]

you would know all about masterbating at home by the looks of things apart from smashing up a macdonalds just wtf do you think you will achieve?

I am not going to smash up macdonalds.

I might kick a burger carton but only if I am feeling frisky

 

[brasicritique]

Just another lefty petty bourgeois anarchist day out then,forming meaningfull long term stratgies instead any ideas then? ..

yep to the first point imo nothing much will chnage until the middleclass/students/wadicals see those from the lower classess as people who are there equals instead of ideological cannon fodder

 

[brasicritique]

I am not going to smash up macdonalds.

I might kick a burger carton but only if I am feeling frisky

fyi you can kick a burger carton anywhere these days still your comment just about sums up the ingrained ideoloigcal indifference amongst the organisers to the issues that they supposedly are interested in tackling . No as i said before student away day for kids to kick burger cartons who will then go on and become part of the system that they supposedly are against

 

[brasicritique]

Is this going to be like the poll tax riot then? -

Looking at the list of sponsoring organisations it looks more like a replay of the Edinburgh G7 protest in July 2005. Doesn't look particularly Anarchist or radical to me. Looks a bit liberal / Oxfam. So, this will either receive a tokenistic patronising mention on the news, or it will be ignored. Then again, if the CIRCA clowns turn up, this will be the media focus and it will look rather silly, or then again, if the Black Bloc turn up, the cameras will point at the violence. So in my opinion, it doesn't look productive, just at this present minute, it seems rather boxed in from all directions, rather like those barriers in Oxford Street during one of the early noughties Mayday protests.

In February 2003, millions of people protested against the forthcoming Iraq war. No effect. Similar factors are at play against this one, I feel....

seconded

 

[brasicritique]

I think the point is for "your mum" to be able to go. Many of us are old enough to be your mum, I suspect.

you would all save time and money by joining the fabain society will polly toynbee be going oh i forgot you might be

 

[kittyP]

fyi you can kick a burger carton anywhere these days still your comment just about sums up the ingrained ideoloigcal indifference amongst the organisers to the issues that they supposedly are interested in tackling . No as i said before student away day for kids to kick burger cartons who will then go on and become part of the system that they supposedly are against

Oh FFS

 

[brasicritique]

brasiccritique

"complete and utter pointless reactionary rubbish demonstrating against somthing is easy".

No shit. Thanks for the tip. What is reactionary of course is the consoldiation of power by the banking scamsters and the fucktard politicians who danced around with glee at their genius when they were allowing it to happen.

No shit

"constructing a socially inclusive and realisiticly valid alternative should be the aim..."

There will be plenty of people discussing action on alternatives, but why let facts get in the way of a lazy narrative?

No there will be middleclass people spouting the usual disingenous flipflopery

"are the unions involved the ones who are pro welfare reform?"

Well, there looks like a phoney left contigent as usual, I hope it doesnt turn into the co-opted failure that was Make Poverty History (a state sanctioned march almost in the style of Stalin) Real radicalism was at the Stirling Camp.

Sure, there will be a span of reformists and revolutionaries and we may see ourselves as more in sympathy with one than another.

Sure, there may be kettling, stale standoffs or mass arrests, bias media, sore feet and rest of the stuff that goes with demos.

And sure, demos are only one fairly narrow tool for us.

But this looks like the biggest demo-based expression of anti-capitalism since 911 (when activist efforts became more anti-war than anti-cap in flavour)

To denounce it is somewhat churlish.

no its not churlish these organisations missed there chance to make a big difference when the recent strikes over jobs took off and when the postmen go on strike imo amost of these organisations at this demo will also turn a blind eye ( or like the swp did in its paper commenting on the strikes call them all racsists as duruti pointed out ) just the way a lot of so called leftys and liberals turned away during the miners strike . To deny that political actions strikes demos wtf are not formed along rigid class lines in the context of rigid class interests in this country is imo churlish

 

[brasicritique]

Oh FFS

 

[brasicritique]

Unite

are unite pro welfare reform

 

[kittyP]

Its just that, IMHO you are right in saying that there are a lot of people in this country that are ingrained with ideological indifference but if they are a majority then why not get them together and try and change that, rather just attend other things which they won't attend?

 

[brasicritique]

only just beginning to become aware of this, but really interested. will start exploring the feelings about this locally.

p.s. really frustrated at the inarticulate detractions. if you want to provide critical disapproval then say something comprehendible. the detractors on this thread seem to be expressing personal issues more than anything else. at the moment this 'event' is still forming and it's a great time to critically engage with what it could/should be, or why it's ill conceived. casting incoherent aspersions isn't a meaningful contribution.

sorry and who the fuck are you aprt from the most ideologically incoherent poster on this thread so far you see this poster embodies exactly the snobish middleclass attitude that keeps most of the organisations and indeed demos like this PURLEY MIDDLECLASS to deny this and my earlier point on the grounds of grammer just sums up the inherent anally uptight ideological contradictions of such actions/demos - you see if we take peacepetes attitude as the norm ( as it is on urban these days) it becomes quickly apparent that such political actions are socially exclusive and as such undermine the whole myth that the organisers are interested in seeking alternatives to the current socio-economic status or a society based upon equality

 

[bluestreak]

I was really making a slightly different point to be honest, about the space that things like this can potentially open up for non-politicos and non-activists, the dreaded 'ordinary people' - to develop positions and approaches based on their own needs, rather than this offering opps for the activists to further their own agendas.

Fair play, i agree with you on that one!

 

[brasicritique]

Its just that, IMHO you are right in saying that there are a lot of people in this country that are ingrained with ideological indifference but if they are a majority then why not get them together and try and change that, rather just attend other things which they won't attend?

sorry you seem to be confused who are you talking about the protesters or the bankers or the media ...

 

[brasicritique]

are unite pro welfare reform

hello anyone are unite pro wlefare reform ?

 

[kittyP]

sorry you seem to be confused who are you talking about the protesters or the bankers or the media ...

Maybe I would be less confused if you punctuated a bit but...

In response to your post, to be honest, any one that is willing to listen to lots of different points of views and create an informed opinion... maybe..........

 

[brasicritique]

Oh, he will, you can be sure of that!

you are pathetic

 

[kittyP]

hello anyone are unite pro wlefare reform ?

I don't know anything about Unites ideas about 'pro welfare reform', maybe I should, maybe you should tell me, as I get an inkling you possibly already know

 

[brasicritique]

Maybe I would be less confused if you punctuated a bit but... .

actually the problem stemmed from your post does the p after kitty stand for peacepete

In response to your post, to be honest, any one that is willing to listen to lots of different points of views and create an informed opinion... maybe..........

well that was worth the wait

 

[kittyP]

actually the problem stemmed from your post does the p after kitty stand for peacepete

It stands for 'pants' actually.. its a long story (well not so much long as boring).

well that was worth the wait

Feeling a bit jaded are we?

I am sorry if you think that me being interested and having some hope is not worth your time.

I do change from day to day though, I will probably be a cynical bastard tomorrow after two days back to work after a half term.

 

[brasicritique]

ffs, this is part of the reason why the left is so fragmented and divided in the first place.

no the reason the left is so fragmented is that it is full of people with peacepetes attitude

 

[trevhagl]

I really cant stand the emphasis on ideological purity - oh we cant go to this protest because it's organised by reformists/the SWP/whatever.

ffs, this is part of the reason why the left is so fragmented and divided in the first place.

Totally.

There's always some whinging bastard who will analyse EVERYTHING ,pick faults and do nothing constructive themselves.

 

[brasicritique]

I don't know anything about Unites ideas about 'pro welfare reform', maybe I should, maybe you should tell me, as I get an inkling you possibly already know

maybe i think people should learn for themselves and so many of the unions are neo con these days i cannot remeber who is not ( apart from the rmt )actaully i was hoping treelover might add somthing to this thread as he is one of the few posters who are ideologically consistant and whose posts tell it as it is btw i hope you are joking about half term else i refer you to one of my original points about posters who are anti system whilst part of the system therfore part of the problem hypothesis

i tell you all somthing if unite are pro welfare reform then they are sick as are those who would walk shoulder to shoulder with those from a union that wnats to see the poor get poorer and whose union by supportin gthis policy will undermine the bargaining power over wages and conditions for its own memembrs however if unite are anti welfare reform then i take it all back

 

[brasicritique]

Totally.

There's always some whinging bastard who will analyse EVERYTHING ,pick faults and do nothing constructive themselves.

so your about as democratic as those you claim to oppose nice

 

[kittyP]

maybe i think people should learn for themselves and so many of the unions are neo con these days i cannot remeber who is not ( apart from the rmt )actaully i was hoping treelover might add somthing to this thread as he is one of the few posters who are ideologically consistant and whose posts tell it as it is btw i hope you are joking about half term else i refer you to one of my original points about posters who are anti system whilst part of the system therfore part of the problem hypothesis

i tell you all somthing if unite are pro welfare reform then they are sick as are those who would walk shoulder to shoulder with those from a union that wnats to see the poor get poorer and whose union by supportin gthis policy will undermine the bargaining power over wages and conditions for its own memembrs however if unite are anti welfare reform then i take it all back

In regards to half term yes I am being serious.
I work with severely autistic teenagers in a school that is very geared to their needs.
It does not so much buy in to the education system in the way you may be thinking, more fighting it to give our students some stability and safety.

In regards to everything else, if you accept that the majority of the country are fairly apathetic to the issues you are concerned about, why do you seem so intent on alienating them rather than educating them?

 

[nightbreed]

no the reason the left is so fragmented is that it is full of people with peacepetes attitude

When I grow up I want to be an anarchist. Is that ok mummy??

 

[kittyP]

Oh and sorry for the derail

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Brasicritique

no there will be middleclass people spouting the usual disingenous flipflopery

Fuck me, you've done a survey of all the people who went before it even happened. I had no idea that the time travel technology had got so leaky.
If you could give us an accumalator for the 6 Nations scores this weekend it would be really helpful.

I see you spouting shallow class bigotry in another post almost immediately afterwards. Is it some kind of aspergers obsession. Why is "middle class" a legitimate term of abuse? It's phoney and pathetic. There are are plenty of reactionaries and progressives in all classes. I dont suppose you'd ever bother to read Marx, what with him being middle class and married to an aristo.

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe 'Middle class' means 'in the structural interests of the middle class.'

 

[Badger Kitten]

just passing on another 28th Feb event

looky here


some cool film making/watching/workshop stuff, and some great speakers


Speakers include: Prof Tariq Ramadan (Islamic theologian), Mark Thomas (comedian/activist), Susan George (anti-globalisation writer), Karma Nabulsi (Palestinian academic), Meena Raman (environmental activist Malaysia), Ken Livingstone (former Mayor of London), Tariq Ali (writer/activist), Trevor Ngwane (Anti-privatisation forum South Africa), Yash Tandon (South Centre Uganda), Tony Juniper (environmental activist), Neal Lawson (Compass), Jean Lambert MEP (Green Party), Prof Gilbert Achcar (SOAS), Bianca Jagger (EU Goodwill Ambassador), Amit Srivastava (India Resource Centre, India), Jeremy Corbyn (Labour MP), Colin Firth (actor), Salma Yaqoob (anti-war activist) , Alistair Crooke (Conflicts Forum, Lebanon), Daud Abdullah (MCB), Usama Hasan (City Circle), John Pandit (ADF), Moazzem Begg (ex-Guantanamo detainee), Gareth Peirce (human rights lawyer), Baroness Lola Young (media/cultural activist), Taysir Arabasi (Palestinian Farmers Union), Nora Fernandez (Debt Commission, Ecuador), Andrew Simms (nef), Tarek el-Diwany (author) and many more ...

 

[butchersapron]

Cool!