Pupils to made to swear allegiance to the Queen

[poster342002]

Agreed, and of course when kids are 'forced' to do something they often rebel, and I can imagine kids leaving an urban comprehensive school reacting somewhat negatively to this

Part of me wants it to be brought in, just so the refusals are publicised and start a wave of disaffection towards the monarchy.

I can see this govt responding to such a situation with (yet more) legislation that denies school-leavers their exam certificates until they get their allegiance "signed off" as having been performed. Or they could be denied an ID Card until such time as they've perfoemd allegiance - which would effectively disbar them from a wide variety of things that we'll doubtless be unable to do without presenting the card.

 

[coccinelle]

I don't like the idea of pledging allegiance purely because whenever I see Americans do that whole thing of putting their hands on their heart and looking all devout and solemn, it fair gives me the creeps. It just makes me think of that Sinclair Lewis quote " Fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a Bible."

But, in my later years, I must admit that I have come to have a great respect for the fact that this country is a monarchy. I like the idea that our head of state is a magickal, rather than a political, figure. The monarchy nowadays only has that magickal role, as a symbol of the country itself.

The throne, in the Celtic tradition, represents the land and the monarch becomes the guardian of the land. I find this nicely metaphorical and I would prefer to pledge my allegiance to a symbolic representation of the country I was born in rather than to (say) some corrupt bunch of grey-suited politicians or (because of its militaristic associations) to a flag.

 

[poster342002]

But, in my later years, I must admit that I have come to have a great respect for the fact that this country is a monarchy. I like the idea that our head of state is a magickal, rather than a political, figure.

"magickal"!?

What are we, superstitious peasants living beneath the lord's castle - convinced our betters have special magical powers?

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't like the idea of pledging allegiance purely because whenever I see Americans do that whole thing of putting their hands on their heart and looking all devout and solemn, it fair gives me the creeps. It just makes me think of that Sinclair Lewis quote " Fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a Bible."

But, in my later years, I must admit that I have come to have a great respect for the fact that this country is a monarchy. I like the idea that our head of state is a magickal, rather than a political, figure. The monarchy nowadays only has that magickal role, as a symbol of the country itself.

The throne, in the Celtic tradition, represents the land and the monarch becomes the guardian of the land. I find this nicely metaphorical and I would prefer to pledge my allegiance to a symbolic representation of the country I was born in rather than to (say) some corrupt bunch of grey-suited politicians or (because of its militaristic associations) to a flag.

this is the throne in the english tradition: brutal subjugation and bloody empire building. Thats what liz represents not some mystical celctic tradition.

 

[Urbanblues]

I reckon that monarchists are seeing that forcing people to give allegiece to the the Queen will damage the institution of the monarchy. The resulting refusals which will be reported and will taint the monarchy (well more than they are tainting themselves that is).

Lol, "...damage the institution of the monarchy." and "...taint the monarchy"? If the goings-on of this dysfunctional bunch of inbred misfits hasn’t managed to damage or taint the monarchy; calling for a poxy aoth of allegiance ain’t gonna do it.

I get the distinct feeling that the monarchy is trying very hard to get itself abolished so that it can spend more time with its wealth. Each time they fuck up, you can imagine the sense of “That should do the trick; the plebs’ll be baying for our blood” emanating from an angry Philip.

 

[DotCommunist]

Lol, "...damage the institution of the monarchy." and "...taint the monarchy"? If the goings-on of this dysfunctional bunch of inbred misfits hasn’t managed to damage or taint the monarchy; calling for a poxy aoth of allegiance ain’t gonna do it.

I get the distinct feeling that the monarchy is trying very hard to get itself abolished so that it can spend more time with its wealth. Each time they fuck up, you can imagine the sense of “That should do the trick; the plebs’ll be baying for our blood” emanating from an angry Philip.

Phils competeing with Jeremy Clarksome for the title of UK's most irkesome real-life troll

 

[Urbanblues]

Phils competeing with Jeremy Clarksome for the title of UK's most irkesome real-life troll

Nah, Clarkshun's a babe in arms by comparison.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I can see this govt responding to such a situation with (yet more) legislation that denies school-leavers their exam certificates until they get their allegiance "signed off" as having been performed. Or they could be denied an ID Card until such time as they've perfoemd allegiance - which would effectively disbar them from a wide variety of things that we'll doubtless be unable to do without presenting the card.

Sadly I wouldn't put it past this lot.

 

[coccinelle]

"magickal"!?

What are we, superstitious peasants living beneath the lord's castle - convinced our betters have special magical powers?

No, I'm not saying they have magickal powers, just that the throne is a safer thing to pledge allegiance to because it is only symbolic. It no longer has any executive power, it is now a relatively benign symbol of this country.

Perhaps you don't want to feel allegiance to anything and that's fine. All I'm saying is, for me, I like being British and if I want to feel I am part of some sense of national spirit, I would choose the throne as my symbol over (say) a flag or a political constitution.

 

[_angel_]

Still... if they forced it, it might do wonders for getting kids interested in politics...

 

[poster342002]

No, I'm not saying they have magickal powers, just that the throne is a safer thing to pledge allegiance to because it is only symbolic. It no longer has any executive power, it is now a relatively benign symbol of this country.

Perhaps you don't want to feel allegiance to anything and that's fine. All I'm saying is, for me, I like being British and if I want to feel I am part of some sense of national spirit, I would choose the throne as my symbol over (say) a flag or a political constitution.

If I had to sawear allegiance to anything, I'd rather swear it to the people of the nation or to democracy or a written constituion or something. I would NOT wish to swear it to an unelected, hereditary, glorified politician.

 

[poster342002]

certain communities in Wales that prove the 'donkey' theory right (pin a red rosette on a donkey and people would still vote for it etc).

I don't know about voting for donkeys in Wales, but in London it's been proven that they can pin a red rossette to an ass and it'll still get in.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

We fought two world wars in order to not have to forcibly swear allegience to a bunch of dodgy Germans.

 

[Urbanblues]

We fought two world wars in order to not have to forcibly swear allegience to a bunch of dodgy Germans.

Did you?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Did you?

I didn't but others did. I'm not that old.

 

[Urbanblues]

I didn't but others did. I'm not that old.

Sorry the 'we' threw me. Those wars were rather a long time ago; how long will it be before you bulldog Brit types will let go?

Tell me, do you suppose our kids'll be making saying "We fought two oil wars in order that the Iraqis could swear allegiance to US hegemony"?

 

[The Black Hand]

May surprise you to know there are legions of pissed off English folk who won't like this idea either.

Doh!
That's why i said "etc"...

 

[danny la rouge]

If I had to sawear allegiance to anything, I'd rather swear it to the people of the nation or to democracy or a written constituion or something. I would NOT wish to swear it to an unelected, hereditary, glorified politician.

Yes. Although having to swear allegiance to anything (whether by 'encouragement' or statute) is obviously not a good thing, and doesn't say good things about the society that demands it.

 

[coccinelle]

If I had to sawear allegiance to anything, I'd rather swear it to the people of the nation or to democracy or a written constituion or something.

Democracy is the last thing I would swear allegiance to. It is a totallly debased currency, having become the banner behind which the Judaeo-Xtian forces are marching in their crusade against Islam.

 

[spanglechick]

humpf - see them try and i promise you that republican texts will suddenly find their way to a large number of classrooms around the country.

I'm not having it. I'm not having them give my lovely bright, sparky stude4nts sold such a piece of crap line.

And if anyone imagines we're having daily pledges of alliegence in british schools, they should also imagine a fairly exhaustive teachers' strike.

 

[poster342002]

humpf - see them try and i promise you that republican texts will suddenly find their way to a large number of classrooms around the country.

I'm not having it. I'm not having them give my lovely bright, sparky stude4nts sold such a piece of crap line.

And if anyone imagines we're having daily pledges of alliegence in british schools, they should also imagine a fairly exhaustive teachers' strike.

let's face it - if this comes in the unions will just fold over like a pack of cards. As usual.

 

[poster342002]

And as I say, I suspect the sanction against Allegiance Refuseniks will be "no pledge, no signed-off certifcate. No certifcate, no employment (I can see laws being passed to require employers to see the certificate prior to interview".

 

[_angel_]

let's face it - if this comes in the unions will just fold over like a pack of cards. As usual.

Why so doom laden?(National) teachers strikes have worked before (in the eighties). I can't see teachers rolling over and agreeing to do this.

I shouldn't think they'd pursue it that far though.

 

[poster342002]

Why so doom laden?(National) teachers strikes have worked before (in the eighties).

We're now talking twenty years ago. That's how far back you have to go to see anything approaching even partially successfull strike action in most industries, let alone teaching.

Also, the idea is to get school-leavers to swear allegiance - so it'd probably be in front of some public official rather than the teaching staff.

 

[_angel_]

I don't think it'll happen. As stated, even monarchists are against it because of the potential backlash/ more damage to them.

 

[poster342002]

I don't think it'll happen. As stated, even monarchists are against it because of the potential backlash/ more damage to them.

The trouble is, the list of things where the govt lost the argument all round - but just carried on regardless out of sheer bloody-minded determination to get their way and not back down is getting rather long ...

 

[_angel_]

The trouble is, the list of things where the govt lost the argument all round - but just carried on regardless out of sheer bloody-minded determination to get their way and not back down is getting rather long ...

They're talking about co ercing the stroppiest people on the planet - teenagers. I don't see it happening.

We've still got to see how -ahem- successful their forcing them to stay in school or college. I predict a monumental failure.

 

[HackneyE9]

I don't like the idea of pledging allegiance purely because whenever I see Americans do that whole thing of putting their hands on their heart and looking all devout and solemn, it fair gives me the creeps. It just makes me think of that Sinclair Lewis quote " Fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a Bible."

But, in my later years, I must admit that I have come to have a great respect for the fact that this country is a monarchy. I like the idea that our head of state is a magickal, rather than a political, figure. The monarchy nowadays only has that magickal role, as a symbol of the country itself.

The throne, in the Celtic tradition, represents the land and the monarch becomes the guardian of the land. I find this nicely metaphorical and I would prefer to pledge my allegiance to a symbolic representation of the country I was born in rather than to (say) some corrupt bunch of grey-suited politicians or (because of its militaristic associations) to a flag.

I wanna be the first to call their bluff....

"Let me through, I'm here to pledge allegiance to Her Majesty - SHE WAS DIVINELY APPOINTED TO RULE OVER US, YOU KNOW. NO. REALLY, SHE WAS."

 

[Frostys Lodger]

I think that this is all linked to a nasty little report lurking somewhere in Labours head office which paints a rather unpleasant picture of a future electorate who will return a majority English vote for the Conservatives and leave Labour dependant on its Scottish MP's to maintain their hold over number 10 Downing street.

And that has all sorts of potential ramifications when it comes to passing legislation that only affects England.

So New Labour, who have done more to destroy the notion of what it means to be British have to try and shore up the notion of us all being one happy family under the benevolent rule of our Monarchy if its not to lose control, because its only real hope of having any sort of moral authourity in the future comes from being able to promote the rule of Parliament as being the expression of British identity.

Does anyone seriously think that there will be enough scottish labour MPs left for Brown to rely on if nonesense like this gets through ?.

Best recruiting seargent for the Scottish National Partyt in years

 

[poster342002]

Does anyone seriously think that there will be enough scottish labour MPs left for Brown to rely on if nonesense like this gets through ?.

Best recruiting seargent for the Scottish National Partyt in years

The SNP supports the British Monarchy - making them the oddest independance movement I've ever known (I've heard this was to avoid upsetting Scottish Protesant Loyalists and so avoid an 'Ireland scenario'. Imo, this will only leave the issue fudged and festering for later on). In light of this, whether they'd object too strongly to such a measure remains to be seen.