Punk Rock - overrated nonsense!!

[Hollis]

I suppose i'm having difficulty defining post-punk, beyonfd it being "the bands who came along from 1978 - 1982, and whose emergence was made possible by the demolition job Punk did on the turgid mid 70s musical climate2

You see - that's the bollocks part!

 

[Blagsta]

ETA Blagsta's last post
I suppose i'm having difficulty defining post-punk, beyond it being "the bands who came along from 1978 - 1982, and whose emergence was made possible by the demolition job Punk did on the turgid mid 70s musical climate2
to me post-punk imeans predominantly guitar-based rock, i.e. PiL, Joy Division, Wire, Siouxsie, early U2, Magazine, The Fall, Orange Juice, talking heads, blondie i.e. precdominantly guitar bands with varying funk/reggae/jazz influences but not predominantly jazz/reggae etc bands. to me, If you include ACR in that you might just as well throw in Rip Rig 'n' Panic and Pigbag

ACR were on Factory Records, a quintessentially post-punk label. They were predominately a guitar band with funk influence.

 

[editor]

Punk - reverted totally to a white 4/4 standard rock format. (with the complicating factor of 'The Clash' )

Punk was culturally mixed in with reggae from the start and it wasn't just the Clash using elements of the reggae sound.

Here's ol'Bob Marley:

its a punky reggae party
and its tonight
its a punky reggae party
and its alright

im sayin
the Wailers will be there
the Damned, the Jam, the Clash
Maytals will be there
Dr. Feelgood too

no boring old farts, no boring old farts, no boring old farts
will be there!

 

[Streathamite]

Again returning to the Reynolds book - the point is that by the early 70s trad rock had incorporated numerous other elements - some you liked, some you didn't.

Punk - reverted totally to a white 4/4 standard rock format. (with the complicating factor of 'The Clash' )

TRAD Rock???? how the hell did Steely Dan and Little Feat creep into this discussion?
sort yer genres out!!!!
And that - trying to glean some meaning from your post was the whole point of punk. The fact that rock music had 'incorporated numerous other elements' is undoubtedly a major causal factor in the fact that, by 1975 it had become deeply, deeply BORING (the one thing music must never be). I just about remember prog enough to know how shite it was; Yes, Tangerine dream, hawkwind and a thousand rich, past-it bloated rock stars creating the most flaccid, overblown, wibbling shite EVER.
Punk brought back simplicity, energy, snottiness and focus - all those things that had fuelled the original explosion of rock 'n' roll. it was militantly, vibrantly ALIVE.
That's what ALL rock is MEANT to be.

 

[editor]

Punk - reverted totally to a white 4/4 standard rock format. (with the complicating factor of 'The Clash'

Err, the vast, vast majority of new-wave songs were also in 4/4.

 

[Hollis]

TRAD Rock???? how the hell did Steely Dan and Little Feat creep into this discussion?
sort yer genres out!!!!
And that - trying to glean some meaning from your post was the whole point of punk. The fact that rock music had 'incorporated numerous other elements' is undoubtedly a major causal factor in the fact that, by 1975 it had become deeply, deeply BORING (the one thing music must never be). I just about remember prog enough to know how shite it was; Yes, Tangerine dream, hawkwind and a thousand rich, past-it bloated rock stars creating the most flaccid, overblown, wibbling shite EVER.
Punk brought back simplicity, energy, snottiness and focus - all those things that had fuelled the original explosion of rock 'n' roll. it was militantly, vibrantly ALIVE.
That's what ALL rock is MEANT to be.

You're just churning out this conventional narrative..

 

[Blagsta]

Punk was culturally mixed in with reggae from the start and it wasn't just the Clash using elements of the reggae sound.

Here's ol'Bob Marley:

It may have been culturally mixed in due to DJ's at the 100 Club playing reggae, but apart from The Clash, I can't think of any other punk bands actually using any reggae/dub influence in their sound until a couple of years later.

 

[Pickman's model]

Punk - reverted totally to a white 4/4 standard rock format. (with the complicating factor of 'The Clash' )

4/4 has always been a standard musick time - as it being called 'common time' should perhaps give away. i was browsing through my collection of 70s musick papers the other day, and encountered caroline coon's review of anarchy in the uk. it said, inter alia, that it wasn't really all that different from previous records and that hippies would find quite a lot they recognised. now, regardless of whether or not you share her view, it is one i have heard from a variety of sources.

4/4? i bet you won't find many fucking pop or rock or whatever songs in 7/8 or 9/16.

 

[Streathamite]

ACR were on Factory Records, a quintessentially post-punk label.

true - but ol' Tone liked arty & non-rockist stuff, the more pretentious the better. I wouldn't describe durutti column, OMD or Cab Voltaire as post-punk, really....

They were predominately a guitar band with funk influence.

I'd have said funk, like the Moncdays were, but if ya say so, agree to differ etc.....

 

[Hollis]

4/4? i bet you won't find many fucking pop or rock or whatever songs in 7/8 or 9/16.

Err.. I believe 11/9 has been mentioned in the Reynold's book.. Anyway.. I think the essential part of the sentence was 'standard rock format'.

 

[Blagsta]

TRAD Rock???? how the hell did Steely Dan and Little Feat creep into this discussion?
sort yer genres out!!!!
And that - trying to glean some meaning from your post was the whole point of punk. The fact that rock music had 'incorporated numerous other elements' is undoubtedly a major causal factor in the fact that, by 1975 it had become deeply, deeply BORING (the one thing music must never be). I just about remember prog enough to know how shite it was; Yes, Tangerine dream, hawkwind and a thousand rich, past-it bloated rock stars creating the most flaccid, overblown, wibbling shite EVER.
Punk brought back simplicity, energy, snottiness and focus - all those things that had fuelled the original explosion of rock 'n' roll. it was militantly, vibrantly ALIVE.
That's what ALL rock is MEANT to be.

Punk wasn't that new though was it? MC5, New York Dolls, The Stooges, 13th Floor Elevators etc were all playing rock without any of the prog influence (OK, apart from the Elevator's jug noises, but they certainly didn't sound prog)

 

[Blagsta]

true - but ol' Tone liked arty & non-rockist stuff, the more pretentious the better. I wouldn't describe durutti column, OMD or Cab Voltaire as post-punk, really....

The Cabs were definitely post punk.

I'd have said funk, like the Moncdays were, but if ya say so, agree to differ etc.....

Their is a direct lineage from ACR to the Mondays. If the Mondays had been playing in 79, they'd be post punk too.

 

[Streathamite]

You're just churning out this conventional narrative..

oh for heaven's sake, that's purest bollocks. Tell yer what, play ANY track from 'the Clash' 'Bollocks...' or 'Rat', then play any Yes or mike Oldfield piece. i know which one will wake any true music fan up and have them whirling round the room, and which one will send you to sleep.
Nurse! Horlicks and a Digestive for hollis please!

 

[Blagsta]

oh for heaven's sake, that's purest bollocks. Tell yer what, play ANY track from 'the Clash' 'Bollocks...' or 'Rat', then play any Yes or mike Oldfield piece. i know which one will wake any true music fan up and have them whirling round the room, and which one will send you to sleep.
Nurse! Horlicks and a Digestive for hollis please!

Yeah, but you're arguing that they were the only choices, a binary opposition if you will. There were other things happening, other narratives to explore.

 

[editor]

It may have been culturally mixed in due to DJ's at the 100 Club playing reggae, but apart from The Clash, I can't think of any other punk bands actually using any reggae/dub influence in their sound until a couple of years later.

Err.. The Ruts?

 

[Pickman's model]

Err.. I believe 11/9 has been mentioned in the Reynold's book.. Anyway.. I think the essential part of the sentence was 'standard rock format'.

which is? a drummer, bassist, guitarist and singer?

 

[Blagsta]

Err.. The Ruts?

when did they start incorporating reggae/dub sounds? 1976? or a couple of years later?

 

[Streathamite]

Punk wasn't that new though was it? MC5, New York Dolls, The Stooges, 13th Floor Elevators etc were all playing rock without any of the prog influence (OK, apart from the Elevator's jug noises, but they certainly didn't sound prog)

true, but I wasn't in NYC at the time! (Damn! damn! Damn!) - all those bands, despite all being wonderful, were known, at their peak, only to a relatively small number of people in the UK.
Most of the nation, during those bands heydays - I regret to announce - were still embracing the horrors of long hair, patchouli, cheesecloth and joss-sticksw (maaan...)
by 1977, the Queen had heard of the Pistols!
oh gawd, we're not gonna detour down the discussion-street marked 'what was the TRUE start of punk, and was it sep or brit' are we?

 

[editor]

4/4? i bet you won't find many fucking pop or rock or whatever songs in 7/8 or 9/16.

Golden Brown by the Stranglers was in 6/8 with an oddball added bar of 7/8 (effectively producing a 13/8 time signature).

 

[Hollis]

oh for heaven's sake, that's purest bollocks. Tell yer what, play ANY track from 'the Clash' 'Bollocks...' or 'Rat', then play any Yes or mike Oldfield piece. i know which one will wake any true music fan up and have them whirling round the room, and which one will send you to sleep.
Nurse! Horlicks and a Digestive for hollis please!

Really?? So without punk we wouldn't have had Soft Cell, the Human League.. for example?

Punk made all this possible?

 

[Blagsta]

true, but I wasn't in NYC at the time! (Damn! damn! Damn!) - all those bands, despiteall being wonderful were known, at their peak, only to a relatively small number of people in the UK.
by 1977, the Queen had heard of the Pistols!

True. But in retrospect, the common conception that punk was a complete break from the past doesn't stand up.

oh gawd, we're not gonna detour down the discussion-street marked 'what was the TRUE start of punk, and was it sep or brit' are we?

If you like. I guess the point is, that attempting to fit one linear narrative onto the history of popular culture (or any history for that matter) is a futile exercise.

 

[editor]

when did they start incorporating reggae/dub sounds? 1976? or a couple of years later?

Reggae was part of the punk scene, and it wasn't just The Clash using reggae in their sound.

But, of course, not all bands got to release their music, while other songs took a while to get released, so record release dates don't tell the whole story.

 

[Crispy]

Getting in early for the 2006 grumpy old man contest eh?

 

[Blagsta]

Reggae was part of the punk scene, and it wasn't just The Clash using reggae in their sound.

But, of course, not all bands got to release their music, while other songs took a while to get released, so record release dates don't tell the whole story.

Name me a band that was using dub/reggae in punk in 76.

 

[Pickman's model]

Golden Brown by the Stranglers was in 6/8 with an oddball added bar of 7/8 (effectively producing a 13/8 time signature).

and released about 1983.

 

[Streathamite]

Yeah, but you're arguing that they were the only choices, a binary opposition if you will. There were other things happening, other narratives to explore.

there, but I'm scratching my head and trying to recall if there was anything in the 70s,post-glam, pre-punk british musical mainstream that shouldn't have been tied up in a black plastic sack and fed to a goat.
and nope, i don't think there was. all of it utter, utter shite. hideous and worhtless beyond belief.
espesh Led zep and hawkwind....(sits back confidently and waits for abuse from hairy ol' rockists)

 

[editor]

Punk made all this possible?

I'd say it definitely contributed.

 

[Blagsta]

there, but I'm scratching my head and trying to recall if there was anything in the 70s,post-glam, pre-punk british musical mainstream

There's yer problem.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Ooh, genre nerdery for old people.

I don't get all this, I'm off back to the 'shitcore' thread.

 

[Pickman's model]

there, but I'm scratching my head and trying to recall if there was anything in the 70s,post-glam, pre-punk british musical mainstream that shouldn't have been tied up in a black plastic sack and fed to a goat.
and nope, i don't think there was. all of it utter, utter shite. hideous and worhtless beyond belief.
espesh Led zep and hawkwind....(sits back confidently and waits for abuse from hairy ol' rockists)

you surely wouldn't see michael moorcock out of hawkwind fed to the goats?