Punk Rock - overrated nonsense!!
- Thread starter Hollis
- Start date
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
.....
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
never mind the bollocks LPHollis said:
the first 4 pistols singles.
rattus norvegicus IV LP) stranglers
every buzzcocks single.
every rezillos, slits and vibrators record
the TV series 'so it goes'.
and above all, the fact that coming after that hideous, turgid, overblown musical enema that was prog rock, they came across as a total, utter joy.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
well, you could say early Wire, siouxsie and Pere Ubu records were as much punk as they were post-punk.Hollis said:err.. where does one begin.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
where do you stand on hardcore, emo, anarchopunk and all of the 80s variations on punk other than post-punk?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
What about postmodernist punk? 
ice-is-forming
Good kids caught down in the never never
Hollis said:Considered to be bollocks by the genuine punks.
Urban Myth,
i was a genuine punk and I think this album is great,
not as good as either of the vibrators ones, but great just the same.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
editor said:What - that the Clash, Buzzcocks, Pistols, X Ray Spex etc were "twaddle"?
I love New Wave but you can't discount the Clash's first album as 'over rated'!
OK, maybe not that much of a point. I think he's been too influenced by Reynolds' book, which argues that punk was essentially nothing new, it was post-punk which was innovative.
Something wonderful happened in the late sixties as rock incorporated experimentation from the hippy era and the guitar innovation of Hendrix. A splurge of wondrous colour exploded onto canvass as the likes of Led Zepellin, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple hammered out rock classic after rock classic. But all too soon the sound transformed into a dirge of recycled tepid tripe. Glam Rock nearly rescued the day injecting the vital ingredient of fun back into rock n roll - but the expanding teenybopper market robbed Glam of its edge.
Disco was nice - if you liked that sort of thing. Progressive Rock had packed bags and moved into permanent residence up its own arse. The kids had to be content with the boppity bop of Showaddywaddy while adults gloomily nodded along in knowing intellectual agreement to the classically trained masturbation of flare wearing superstars. Meanwhile the oil crisis and rising joblessness had put paid to the misplaced optimism of the loved up hippies, while rock music had sold up in return for a lavishly directed and over-produced and as it turned out premature funeral.
The complacent fat wobbly arse that was the music industry desperately needed a kick. Cue the young angry fresh-from-the-street rock n roll with attitude that was punk. Hippies, adults and the music industry immediately recoiled in horror at the return of pounding rock n roll - this time with its index finger stuck firmly up its nose, emerging only briefly to flick a bogey of disgust roughly in the direction of the establishment.
Overrated? Nonsense? You jest.
As soon as the music gets pretentious the antidote is a good dose of old fashioned rock n roll. There were precedents both in rough n ready rock andin attitude. But the overt fuck off delivered by punk would have been a step too far for the fifties rock rebels or even for The Who - they'd have been locked up and there were plenty who earnestly called through po-faces for the prison door to shut on the punk rockers.
Hollis - from your distant vantage point obscured through the prism of eighties dirge you mistake the punk explosion for a mere splash in a dirty puddle. Take a closer look but mind you don't get burned - allthese years on and this particular fire is till hot.
Disco was nice - if you liked that sort of thing. Progressive Rock had packed bags and moved into permanent residence up its own arse. The kids had to be content with the boppity bop of Showaddywaddy while adults gloomily nodded along in knowing intellectual agreement to the classically trained masturbation of flare wearing superstars. Meanwhile the oil crisis and rising joblessness had put paid to the misplaced optimism of the loved up hippies, while rock music had sold up in return for a lavishly directed and over-produced and as it turned out premature funeral.
The complacent fat wobbly arse that was the music industry desperately needed a kick. Cue the young angry fresh-from-the-street rock n roll with attitude that was punk. Hippies, adults and the music industry immediately recoiled in horror at the return of pounding rock n roll - this time with its index finger stuck firmly up its nose, emerging only briefly to flick a bogey of disgust roughly in the direction of the establishment.
Overrated? Nonsense? You jest.
As soon as the music gets pretentious the antidote is a good dose of old fashioned rock n roll. There were precedents both in rough n ready rock andin attitude. But the overt fuck off delivered by punk would have been a step too far for the fifties rock rebels or even for The Who - they'd have been locked up and there were plenty who earnestly called through po-faces for the prison door to shut on the punk rockers.
Hollis - from your distant vantage point obscured through the prism of eighties dirge you mistake the punk explosion for a mere splash in a dirty puddle. Take a closer look but mind you don't get burned - allthese years on and this particular fire is till hot.
Hollis
bloody furious
Uhm.. well I am to an extent arguing the toss. However - I think the usual viewpoint is that there was early-70s prog rock/glam rock crap.. then punk came along and transformed the music scene.. and from that came post-punk.
Whereas the book highlights that there was loads of other interesting stuff going on before punk appeared in its mainstream 1977 form, and this was far more influential on post-punk and subsequent 80s music.
Whereas the book highlights that there was loads of other interesting stuff going on before punk appeared in its mainstream 1977 form, and this was far more influential on post-punk and subsequent 80s music.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Hollis said:
that's probably true, but punk still has loads of great stuff in it and was still bloody important as a genre.
LD Rudeboy said:
Some would say that was an accurate tribute to the Clash's technical limitations when they first got together ... Paul Simonon, in the very early gigs, had to have his bass tuned for him by Joe or Mick ...
But they got a lot better rapidly ...
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Looking back on it from the vantage point of someone who was only 5 in 1976, punk was great because it opened up the way for so much other stuff. A lot of punk has dated really badly IMO (notwithstanding The Clash, The Buzzcocks, X-Ray Spex etc), whereas (to me at least), the stuff that came after when punk started being influenced by reggae, dub, disco, funk, electronic music etc was way more musically interesting. Which is basically Reynolds' thesis in "Rip it Up and Start Again".
Blagsta said:
The Reggae, ska and rock n roll influence was there from the start with The Clash.
Post-punk (eighties) replaced the punk energy and aggression somewhat with a heavy dose of introspective squeezing spots in a bedsit depression. Two Tone got the eighties off to a great start (in 1979) but then everyone perhaps understandably succumbed to miserabalism.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Groucho said:
True, which is why I made them an exception.
Groucho said:Post-punk (eighties) replaced the punk energy and aggression somewhat with a heavy dose of introspective squeezing spots in a bedsit depression. Two Tone got the eighties off to a great start (in 1979) but then everyone perhaps understandably succumbed to miserabalism.
I think thats rather a charicatured view. Orange Juice? Human League? Heaven 17? Talking Heads? ACR?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
err....funk-punk, folk-punk, funk and 'blokes banging sheets of metal hard", shurely?Blagsta said:
apart from their emergence after punk in what way are these - but espesh ACR and test dept 'post-punk'?
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i'm surprised it's apparently taken you thirty years to come to that dubious conclusion.Hollis said:Face facts.. its twaddle.. post-punk's where all the real action is.
End of.
(This will be my last post on the subject.)
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Groucho said:Post-punk (eighties) replaced the punk energy and aggression somewhat with a heavy dose of introspective squeezing spots in a bedsit depression. Two Tone got the eighties off to a great start (in 1979) but then everyone perhaps understandably succumbed to miserabalism.
the misery 'n' grey raincoats brigade aren't solely to blame. it was also down to all that lot that started fannying about with excess makeup, art statements and synthesizers (i.e. principally, but not only the - urrghh!! - New Romantics).
lets have all the culprits up against the wall!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
presumably that means rock 'n' roll itself is 'essentially limited', by the same yardstick?Hollis said:Couldn't happen given the essentially very limited nature of the genre.
and if not, why not?
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Red Jezza said:err....funk-punk, folk-punk, funk and 'blokes banging sheets of metal hard2, shurely?
apart from their emergence after punk in what way are these - but espesh ECR and test dept 'post-punk'?
They were bands whose members were all punks or influenced by punk. How are they not post-punk? Did thay come after punk yet represent a shift away from the standard 1234! thrash of punk?
Hollis
bloody furious
Red Jezza said:
Again returning to the Reynolds book - the point is that by the early 70s trad rock had incorporated numerous other elements - some you liked, some you didn't.
Punk - reverted totally to a white 4/4 standard rock format. (with the complicating factor of 'The Clash'
)
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
ETA
Blagsta's last post
I suppose i'm having difficulty defining post-punk, beyond it being "the bands who came along from 1978 - 1982, and whose emergence was made possible by the demolition job Punk did on the turgid mid 70s musical climate"
to me post-punk imeans predominantly guitar-based rock, i.e. PiL, Joy Division, Wire, Siouxsie, early U2, Magazine, The Fall, Orange Juice, talking heads, blondie i.e. precdominantly guitar bands with varying funk/reggae/jazz influences but not predominantly jazz/reggae etc bands. to me, If you include ACR in that you might just as well throw in Rip Rig 'n' Panic and Pigbag
Blagsta's last postI suppose i'm having difficulty defining post-punk, beyond it being "the bands who came along from 1978 - 1982, and whose emergence was made possible by the demolition job Punk did on the turgid mid 70s musical climate"
to me post-punk imeans predominantly guitar-based rock, i.e. PiL, Joy Division, Wire, Siouxsie, early U2, Magazine, The Fall, Orange Juice, talking heads, blondie i.e. precdominantly guitar bands with varying funk/reggae/jazz influences but not predominantly jazz/reggae etc bands. to me, If you include ACR in that you might just as well throw in Rip Rig 'n' Panic and Pigbag
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