Punishing children in school

[Epona]

Corporal punishment was still a thing when I was at school, I got the slipper or the cane (when older) a few times.

Sadistic fucks.

 

[existentialist]

I can't begin to express how outraged I feel at that - it would be bad enough of any teacher, but that was your music teacher - you should have come out of those lessons feeling that music was great.

The reason I wouldn't play in the school orchestra was because it was truly shit, and I was Actually Quite Good, so I didn't need the bitter and stunted MacIver to prove the joys of music to me. Similar (though not nearly as blatant) behaviour by a PE teacher has, though, had a lifelong effect on my relationship with physical fitness and sport - ie., I don't have one

If these people had just the slightest idea of the unintended consequences of their actions...

 

[Epona]

The reason I wouldn't play in the school orchestra was because it was truly shit, and I was Actually Quite Good, so I didn't need the bitter and stunted MacIver to prove the joys of music to me. Similar (though not nearly as blatant) behaviour by a PE teacher has, though, had a lifelong effect on my relationship with physical fitness and sport - ie., I don't have one

If these people had just the slightest idea of the unintended consequences of their actions...

Aye, a lot of sport was ruined for me by being forced to stand out in the freezing rain playing bloody hockey all winter, and netball in the summer... I wanted to play cricket ffs. When I started at the school it was the first time girls were allowed to do metalworking and woodworking instead of sewing, but they were still behind in terms of what sports you could do.

I found myself excused from various sports after accidentally injuring people whilst playing both hockey and rounders :/

 

[extra dry]

If you can't do it to a POW you probably shouldn't do it to a child.

When i worked in Korea facing the wall for an hour would be seen as a light punishment.

 

[Pickman's model]

when it gets to this level vv questions should be asked

 

[dylanredefined]

when it gets to this level vv questions should be asked

Is that punishment or playtime? the Navy is a bunch of strange types.

 

[Pickman's model]

Is that punishment or playtime? the Navy is a bunch of strange types.

might easily be either

 

[StoneRoad]

when it gets to this level vv questions should be asked

Whoever drew that had no idea of a) ship design or b) naval flogging ...
as there is that much wrong with it. At a quick look I've got at least ten errors ! and I'm not an expert.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whoever drew that had no idea of a) ship design or b) naval flogging ...
as there is that much wrong with it. At a quick look I've got at least ten errors ! and I'm not an expert.

it was a 13 year auld

 

[Pickman's model]

Whoever drew that had no idea of a) ship design or b) naval flogging ...
as there is that much wrong with it. At a quick look I've got at least ten errors ! and I'm not an expert.

http://bluejacket.com/sea-service_discipline-flogging.htm

 

[tim]

it was a 13 year auld

Young enough for StoneRoad to be sent round to administer appropriate discipline, then.

 

[Orang Utan]

Not really the appropriate thread for joking about it.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

When I was four I was made to stand in a corridor with my shoes off outside the hall for the whole afternoon. Some girl who was eight had kicked me, so I kicked her back and she went and grassed, so I got punished.

Some parents were being shown around the school and asked the head why I was stood there, "Oh, he's a kicker." The cunt said.

Reckon I've got a claim against the council Orang Utan?

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't know. why are you asking me? what have the council got to do with it?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Was a Hounslow Council school.

So how much should I go for?

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't know what you're talking about. I think you're posting on the wrong thread.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I don't know what you're talking about. I think you're posting on the wrong thread.

I was punished by being made to stand in front of a wall for two and a half hours with my shoes off when I was four years old. If this is really bad, can I make a claim against that London Borough that inflicted this upon me?

 

[Orang Utan]

I was punished by being made to stand in front of a wall for two and a half hours with my shoes off when I was four years old. If this is really bad, can I make a claim against that London Borough that inflicted this upon me?

i'm sorry, but i have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Orang Utan]

The thing with humiliation - which this surely is - is that it works very well, most of the time, on most of the people. In the short term, at least. But if you push anyone too far, there comes a point where the price of the humiliation becomes just too high, and then all bets are off.

Not only that, but children learn from watching what the adults around them are doing (remember the old ad about the little kid imitating his mum smoking?), and if they are sitting in a classroom watching other kids (or even themselves) being effectively controlled by humiliating them, they are going to be much more likely to use similar tactics themselves. Then, of course, there's the psychological impact of being repeatedly humiliated. Some people do seem to be able to shrug it off - perhaps because they have a supportive network at home, or a good group of friends - but for a lot of them, it's going to leave scars, which can manifest in all kinds of ways, from acting out to anxiety or depression, and all the stuff that goes with that.

It's just a thoroughly crap way of managing behaviour, and is more about power (as I think I said before) than anything else, and certainly not about the best interests of the child.

what are you supposed to do about stuff like this going on? report it?

 

[BlueSquareThing]

what are you supposed to do about stuff like this going on? report it?

If it's SLT I'm not sure that would make a lot of difference - increasingly so with academies as there's generally not anyone to report it to.

If it were a common thing in the school then you could consider taking it to your staff governor - I don't know if there' still such a thing as a non-teaching staff governor is there? But that requires the governing body to not be in the thrall of the SLT anyway.

Might be worth considering what the behaviour policy says about sanctions. It may be very specific about what is an appropriate sanction and if this sort of shit isn't there then it might be possible to challenge it in reference to the policy. But I suspect an SLT sanction like this would be "justified" in their eyes under any policy.

 

[StoneRoad]

A report to the Governors, Trustees or Directors of the Board controlling the school/academy group, as a whistleblowing method, but preferably from the parents/guardians rather than staff.
Apart from looking at the school's behaviour/discipline/sanctions policy to see if the situation OU reported is covered (and I can't imagine it showing up there) have a check of the more recent Ofsted reports, that document usually has a relevant section.

 

[chilango]

There might also be a "whistle blowing" policy buried in amongst the schools policies. I've a suspicion that this a requirement now.

 

[existentialist]

There might also be a "whistle blowing" policy buried in amongst the schools policies. I've a suspicion that this a requirement now.

In my experience, they're usually pretty toothless.

 

[chilango]

In my experience, they're usually pretty toothless.

For sure. But it's a starting point - for reference if nothing else - for someone in Orang Utan 's position.

 

[Plumdaff]

At my Catholic primary school in the 1980s they made you stand with your hands stretched out holding a piece of paper, you weren't allowed to drop the paper. Agony after a minute or two. At the same school I at the age of 7 was kept out of lessons and interrogated by various teachers for three days until I admitted doing something I hadn't actually done to make them stop. Two mates had been going in the Church next door and been messing about with the candles. Daft, and they'd told me about it but I'd never actually got involved. After similar pressure from teachers to name others they'd mentioned me. I was especially pointed out and shamed in front of the school as I "took so long to admit my sin” This taught me the valuable lesson that authority is not to be trusted and doesn't care about the truth.
In secondary school I was hated by a particular Maths teacher. Then she gave me a detention for talking when I was in hospital having my tonsils out. After that was pointed out she left me alone.

 

[sim667]

Senior Leadership Team. Management.

Or "cunts' As they're known to most teachers.

 

[friedaweed]

Or "cunts' As they're known to most teachers.

Not all of them are cunts. There's the odd renegade who's child centered

 

[RainbowTown]

Don't necessarily agree with the punishment, no. It's just an exercise in humiliation. But........what did the pupil do in the first place to merit such action?
Maybe litter picking is probably more suitable. Or detention after school.

 

[spanglechick]

Punishments are largely pointless in terms of deterrence. They are payment for wrongdoing. I personally don't like them, as kids think if they're prepared to do the sanction, then it's fair enough to not do the homework or whatever. It's very capitalist.


What works, is a meaningful conversation with the kid. If that fails, with the kid and the parent. If that fails.... Kkkkkhhhh... It all gets a bit bollock-tricky, and I just hope they don't choose my subject for gcse.

 

[Orang Utan]

Don't necessarily agree with the punishment, no. It's just an exercise in humiliation. But........what did the pupil do in the first place to merit such action?
Maybe litter picking is probably more suitable. Or detention after school.

He was having to sit in the dining hall all day cos all the 'good' KS3 kids were being taken to Chessington World Of Queues for the day as a reward. The bad kids had to sit in the hall all day. So, naturally he would have got bored and started fidgeting. Or maybe arguing back after being told off for fidgeting.