Public Services Lobby Toay

[nightbreed]

All the above is true, but I've even seen mass-scabbing in areas with excellent union reps. The problem there was they were so good at handling personal cases (some spectacular wins at ETs and Grievancies that left the employers fuming!) that - among other reasons - people came to rely on them to the exclusion of active participation. There were other problems too - with too many members having ambitions to crawl up the corporate ladder.

Its swings and roundabouts. I have seen strikes with shit shop stewards actively working against the members.In one instance not going out on strike.

Successful strikes are organised properly. If you just leave it for the 'call' without agitation you are going to get a shit response IMO.

 

[dennisr]

MC5, Zeppo, Nightbreed - It is really not worth trying to say anything to posterXXX or KJ - they have come out with the same crap regardless of any conrate examples shown to them for months and months and months - they derail every thread with their tedious depressive, 'it's all hopeless crap' - ignore the twats and hope they will eventually go away.

They just want attention - excuses to do nothing (or in the case of KJ to be a scab)

 

[dennisr]

He is associatied with the swappies.

He was member of the Militant and SP for most of his adult life.

His brother Nick was also a member for a long time, then joined the SWP and is now part of the anti-SWP half of Respect. I don't think Mat is quite as 'friendly' to the SWP or its various fronts though

 

[Nigel]

Nick Wrack, according to all accounts is now part of a tendency/faction(take your pick) Socialism From Below, within RESPECT.
Should'nt think Matt Wrack is close to the SWP at all.

Is their an feedback to what actually went on?

 

[poster342002]

Successful strikes are organised properly. If you just leave it for the 'call' without agitation you are going to get a shit response IMO.

In some places, no amount of agitation will make any difference.

 

[audiotech]

MC5, Zeppo,

I apprecuiate you've had successes in building unions in variosu places, but I think you have tio realsie there are many workpalces that are unchangable - perhaps even the vast majority. Certainly in the main, I've just found that an attitude of Corporate Stockholm Syndrome has prevailed over anything else.

This has been my experience and all the anecdotal success stories I hear are always about somewhere else - much in the style of urban legends.

Try reading some working class history instead.

 

[nightbreed]

In some places, no amount of agitation will make any difference.

Thats a cynical reply.

Are you really bothering to try to change things? Or are you just basing everything on a bad experience?

 

[poster342002]

Thats a cynical reply.

Are you really bothering to try to change things? Or are you just basing everything on a bad experience?

It's perhaps a cynical reply based on years of many bitter experiences. I've been "bothering to try and change things" for nigh-on 20 years without seeing a jot of difference.

 

[nightbreed]

It's perhaps a cynical reply based on years of many bitter experiences. I've been "bothering to try and change things" for nigh-on 20 years without seeing a jot of difference.

Well change your job or give up. Im afraid as Dennir says all you do is create doom and despondency.It is clear to me anyway that workplaces are different and things can change. If it hasnt happened to you, well, you just suffer from a lifetime of bad luck.

 

[poster342002]

Well change your job or give up.

I have changed job in the past. I used to think it must just be where I happened to work.

Im afraid as Dennir says all you do is create doom and despondency.It is clear to me anyway that workplaces are different and things can change. If it hasnt happened to you, well, you just suffer from a lifetime of bad luck.

It hasn't happened to anyone I know, either. The only places I hear of solidarity are from are the left, their press and on places like this. Never seen it in real life and nor has anyone I know.

Take a look on the Educuation & Employment branch of the forum: look how little trade union-mindedness is displayed there as potential answers to problems. I would suggest that the E&E forum is far more representative of workplace attitudes than this part of the forum is.

 

[biff curtains]

I don't think Mat is quite as 'friendly' to the SWP or its various fronts though

Or indeed with his brother!

 

[nightbreed]

I have changed job in the past. I used to think it must just be where I hapened to work.


It hasn't happened to anyone I know, either. The only places I hear of solidarity are from are the left, their press and on places like this. Never seen it in real life and nor has anyone I know.

Take a look on the Educuation & Employment branch of the forum: look how little trade union-mindedness is displayed there as potential answers to problems. I would suggest that the E&E forum is far more representative of workplace attitudes than this part of the forum is.

Swings and roundabouts. The majority of workers in the UK arent in unions yet where unions are organised they have better terms, conditions and pay. I believe we are just beginning to see a fight back even though its slow. I believe this will change gradually as people become more pissed off at work.
The days lost in strike action is gradually creeping upyear by year. Its a slow reawakening but it is happening.
The E&E section is arguably more reflective of work at the moment but even this could change.
Im not into the Ra -Ra attitude of some of the left about union struggles. I am a realist who sees that things can change and are changing.I believe it changing in favour of unions and well organised collective struggle.

 

[dennisr]

Or indeed with his brother!

indeed - I felt it best to gloss over that wee point

 

[dennisr]

t hasn't happened to anyone I know, either. The only places I hear of solidarity are from are the left, their press and on places like this. Never seen it in real life and nor has anyone I know.

what both of your mates?

moan, moan, moan - do fuck off you tedious fuck

 

[Guineveretoo]

MC5, Zeppo, Nightbreed - It is really not worth trying to say anything to posterXXX or KJ - they have come out with the same crap regardless of any conrate examples shown to them for months and months and months - they derail every thread with their tedious depressive, 'it's all hopeless crap' - ignore the twats and hope they will eventually go away.

They just want attention - excuses to do nothing (or in the case of KJ to be a scab)

I agree with this, and deleted a post I had typed because I realised that it was just the same old nonsense from the trolling double act. I have decided no longer to waste my time responding to the Tory supporting KBJ or the depressed and depressing posterxxxx

 

[nightbreed]

I agree with this, and deleted a post I had typed because I realised that it was just the same old nonsense from the trolling double act. I have decided no longer to waste my time responding to the Tory supporting KBJ or the depressed and depressing posterxxxx

OK, OK, Ill stop.

I was getting bored anyway.