Public Enemy vs Wu Tang Clan
- Thread starter isitme
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alsoknownas
some bloke
Not really, some bands/artists make a massive breakthrough in form, a quantum leap if you like. Whereas others build successfully on that breakthrough.
I'd say that applies (a bit) to this comparison. PE were originators in production (bomb squad!!!), lyrical content & delivery, and presentation (S1W etc.). Wu Tang were a breath of fresh air but not a radical departure for hip-hop in my opinion.
do you remember how shit hip hop was before wutang blew it up?
they made everything sound dated. everyone based themselves on eric B till wu tang and now they base themselves on wutang
Fusion of the five elements, to search for the higher intelligence
Women walk around celibate, livin irrelevant
The most benelovent king, communicatin through your dreams
Mental pictures been painted, Allah's heard and seen
everywhere, throughout your surroundin atmosphere
Troposphere, thermosphere, stratosphere
Can you imagine from one single idea, everything appeared here
Understanding makes my truth, crystal clear
Innocent black immigrants locked in housing tenemants
Eighty-Five percent tenants depend on welfare recipients
Stapleton's been stamped as a concentration camp
At night I walk through, third eye is bright as a street lamp
Electric microbes, robotic probes
Taking telescope pictures of globe, babies getting pierced with microchips
stuffed inside their earlobes, then examinated
Blood contaminated, vaccinated, lives fabricated
Exaggerated authorization, Food and Drug Administration
Testin poison in prison population
My occupation to stop the innauguration of Satan
Some claim that it was Reagan, so I come to slay men
like Bartholemew, cause every particle is physical article
was diabolical to the last visible molecule
A space night like Rom, consume planets like Unicron
Blasting photon bombs from the arm like Galvatron
Women walk around celibate, livin irrelevant
The most benelovent king, communicatin through your dreams
Mental pictures been painted, Allah's heard and seen
everywhere, throughout your surroundin atmosphere
Troposphere, thermosphere, stratosphere
Can you imagine from one single idea, everything appeared here
Understanding makes my truth, crystal clear
Innocent black immigrants locked in housing tenemants
Eighty-Five percent tenants depend on welfare recipients
Stapleton's been stamped as a concentration camp
At night I walk through, third eye is bright as a street lamp
Electric microbes, robotic probes
Taking telescope pictures of globe, babies getting pierced with microchips
stuffed inside their earlobes, then examinated
Blood contaminated, vaccinated, lives fabricated
Exaggerated authorization, Food and Drug Administration
Testin poison in prison population
My occupation to stop the innauguration of Satan
Some claim that it was Reagan, so I come to slay men
like Bartholemew, cause every particle is physical article
was diabolical to the last visible molecule
A space night like Rom, consume planets like Unicron
Blasting photon bombs from the arm like Galvatron
alsoknownas
some bloke
Just a bit of an over-simplification that. You could just as similarly (and with more justification IMO) note how radical the wailing, screeching sounds of PE were the first time you heard them, how they were counterpointed by Chucks booming bass delivery, and how powerful the politics of black activism hit home at the time.
It's true hip-hop had got a bit dull by the time Wu Tang dropped, but it had also become way more commercialised, and for many people Wu Tang was their first taste of raw, creative rap.
I agree that PE had more imaginative production than wu tang, but wu tang were just better. they had 5 of the best rappers in the world ever spitting, and they were all a fucking team
PE could never match them
ever
art of fact
wavvvey
hands down wu for me.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Wu Tang aren't as catchy and the production is sometimes a bit messy.
I hardly got what they were saying half the time either.
That all said Ghostface and ODB's first albums remain 2 of the greatest hiphop albums ever made.
They work best on their own.
I hardly got what they were saying half the time either.
That all said Ghostface and ODB's first albums remain 2 of the greatest hiphop albums ever made.
They work best on their own.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
I saw Raekwon and Ghostface earlier this year and they fucken shredded it.
Shredded what? Paper? Wheat?
northernhord
Active Member
PE win hands down.
northernhord
Active Member
I love how most of the people who voted for PE aren't into hiphop
Yeah, the great reliabley informed
Nothing will ever match the impact that PE had for me. It's hard to put into words just what a difference they made to the sound and direction of hip hop - the way that big wall of atonal sirens and noise announced something new and worth listening to. They made my young ears jump up, especially after years of anodyne, good time rap or more simple beats in the man. And they had the lyrics to back it up.
Add to that they had phenomenal power appearing live - their first gigs here were shockingly good. Chuck D pumping his fist, goosesteppingly camp SIWs, the gruffness of Griff, the fool that was Flav in full flow. Still up there with my best gigs of all time. if not the best for sheer force and awe.
The Wu had fantastic production, a gaggle of wonderful voices and compulsive themes. But they were never in the same league. Tear away the production and there was often a load of stream of consciousness lyric nonsense as padding, a lack of depth that became more apparent with every album. Fucking great production mind - compulsive stuff that I lapped for years, samples and all. My memory of them's also tarnished by the fact they were shambolic and fucking awful live, amateurish to be honest.
Add to that they had phenomenal power appearing live - their first gigs here were shockingly good. Chuck D pumping his fist, goosesteppingly camp SIWs, the gruffness of Griff, the fool that was Flav in full flow. Still up there with my best gigs of all time. if not the best for sheer force and awe.
The Wu had fantastic production, a gaggle of wonderful voices and compulsive themes. But they were never in the same league. Tear away the production and there was often a load of stream of consciousness lyric nonsense as padding, a lack of depth that became more apparent with every album. Fucking great production mind - compulsive stuff that I lapped for years, samples and all. My memory of them's also tarnished by the fact they were shambolic and fucking awful live, amateurish to be honest.
I haven't seen any of them live except GZA (who was shit lol)
but in terms of their albums and so on, PE also looked incredibly fucking boring and dead after fear of a black planet. wu tang gave us about 10 albums which still sound good years later, PE gave us 2
if it's based on who had the most effect on the media then elvis is the best hiphop artist ever
Yeah, but PE achieved more in 3 good albums that the Wu would do in 50.
And as years went on the ratio of good tracks to filler on each Wu album grew less and less - nearly every Wu album had a standout track or too, but little else. And the ninja/gangster theme grew ever more reductive, went round in ever decreasing circles
The Wu pretty much perfected the storytelling bravado approach of Ice T and others, established a group formula that could run and run, but PE blazed a new hole. You didn't need any further albums from PE to know their worth - hell, Boyzone are still plugging away, but I'm not giving them props for longevity
And as years went on the ratio of good tracks to filler on each Wu album grew less and less - nearly every Wu album had a standout track or too, but little else. And the ninja/gangster theme grew ever more reductive, went round in ever decreasing circles
The Wu pretty much perfected the storytelling bravado approach of Ice T and others, established a group formula that could run and run, but PE blazed a new hole. You didn't need any further albums from PE to know their worth - hell, Boyzone are still plugging away, but I'm not giving them props for longevity
You don't think WuTang created a new style? Wu have made about 50 albums but they have made about 10 that are just fucking ridiculously good, for about 5 years when they were good they were completely untouchable and were basically writing the book on hiphop.
The later stuff is what you were saying where they do a couple of tunes which are brilliant and the rest is a big load of shit, but up until they all fell out in 1998 they were just light years ahead of anyone
The whole thing that they go on about ninjas and gangstas is bullshit as well, they hit on some really heavy and serious shit with some of their tunes. they did a lot of tunes about ninjas and chess and the whole mythology thing, but the reason they were great was because as well as that they talked about real stuff as well.
albionism
A successful virus clinging to a speck of mud.
Yeah, the great reliabley informed
i am very familiar with both PE and WU, and that is what the thread is/was about. I am very well informed regarding these two particular hip-hop groups.
Not into most hip-hop because today it is mostly shit
no it isn't
x100Nah, I don’t think the Wu invented a new style. The whole practice of alter egos, bravado and gangsta/ninja imagery was already well established in hip hop, same with the movie sample use. As was the idea of a big collective with spinoffs, albeit not as calculated.
Their production was different class mind and they came close to perfecting that big group ethos and managed to make it pay. I’m not belittleing the Wu – I loved ‘em as a teen – but they weren’t a particularly innovative group. They just sounded great, courtesy of all those voices and production
i think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
i just think you can tell the difference between hiphop before the wu and after them. that style of rapping trying to combine syllables instead of just rhyming, the whole thing of having a group of rappers fighting over the mic. the minimalism in RZAs beats
course they didn't invent it, but Public Enemy didn't really invent anything. Gil Scott Heron did that Black Power thing years before them and people making chaos on samplers started with The Beatles
I do think it's a generation thing tbh, for me hiphop was really stale and then wu appeared, and then everything after wutang sounded like a copy of them.
I don’t think we have to diasagree, you’re just wrong.
PE’s production WAS entirely new, the whole practice of the bomb squad reassembling noise around the lyrics, Flav flailing a cowbell around or whatever. The Wu Tang’s samples and group dynamic approach had been done before, albeit not as well. You’re not really claiming that syllables thing as Wu Tang’s own are you – it’s not like Rakim and the internal rhyme.
It’s not about a generational thing, it’s just the truth. I loved the Wu Tang, but they were the pinnacle of a style of rap for me, not a new direction.
PE’s production WAS entirely new, the whole practice of the bomb squad reassembling noise around the lyrics, Flav flailing a cowbell around or whatever. The Wu Tang’s samples and group dynamic approach had been done before, albeit not as well. You’re not really claiming that syllables thing as Wu Tang’s own are you – it’s not like Rakim and the internal rhyme.
It’s not about a generational thing, it’s just the truth. I loved the Wu Tang, but they were the pinnacle of a style of rap for me, not a new direction.
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