Psychiatry

[118118]

I do feel that that those sections were nessescary at the time, looking back in hindsight....
You talk of a sane society, but how will you reach this sane society, and when will you know it is sane enough?

So you do not think it right to change psychiatry, or society as a whole?

By your logic, until sociery has become completely changed, then there can be no truely free expfression of thought, and the practice of any meaningful life, because all around you is opression....
It has always been around, and my views on it are that it is possible to make it socially acceptable, to let it be known as a legitimate form of expressing difficult emotion, but unfortunately I, and many others haven't got time to wait for the revolution.

But you want your form of self expression to be recognized as valid

Tell me about these fundamental aspects of human liberty.

What are these, that psychiatry finds so distasteful, and wants to change and/or surpress?

And recognize that psychiatry is not actively suppressing them. Slightly

 

[Ryazan]

in answer to 1- it depends on what you mean. Be more specific. Change society along which lines?


In answer to 2- What form of self-expression is that? Self-harm? Many self-harmers and groups think this.

In answer to 3- I am asking soulman what are the core concpets, which he assumes psychiarsts are aware of, and want to surpress. I don't really understand what you are on about, apart from to troll. he said taking away fundamental aspects of human liberty. I want him to explain what he means by that.

 

[118118]

I don't really understand what you are on about, apart from to troll.

Sorry, you just sounded really confrontational. Thats though

I [just] want him to explain what he means by that.

Edit: I mean that you were making the above seemingly contradictory statements, and wanted you to say if you were. But maybe you weren't. Or maybe you were, in whcich case you seem to be contradicting yourself, So I'm again. Are you saying that shrinks aren't trying to suppress sruff?

 

[118118]

Weren't you disagreeing.

In answer to 2- What form of self-expression is that? Self-harm? Many self-harmers and groups think this.

In answer to 3- I am asking soulman what are the core concpets, which he assumes psychiarsts are aware of, and want to surpress. I don't really understand what you are on about, apart from to troll. he said taking away fundamental aspects of human liberty. I want him to explain what he means by that.

If your sugesting that psychiatrists are not suppressing us, but that self-harm is a valid form of expression, then you seem to be contradicting yourself, as psychiatrists do try and yolu stop self harming.

Changing the parts of society that makes us mad? Capital?

 

[Ryazan]

Weren't you disagreeing.
If your sugesting that psychiatrists are not suppressing us, but that self-harm is a valid form of expression, then you seem to be contradicting yourself, as psychiatrists do try and yolu stop self harming.

Changing the parts of society that makes us mad? Capital?

My psychiatrist did not stop me self-harming, saw it as irrelevant, and ignored it. The self-harming was a big signifying part of what was wrong with me, but she refused to recognise it as such. The arrogance of professionals...It was support outside of hospital that helped me end my self-harming....

Captial? What are you on about? Every society has it's own defintions, ideas of madness, what doesn't fit into socially accepted norms. How would all those notions of madness bandied around disappear with the ending of a capitalist society? Can you answer that?. If someone taking part in the building of an anarchist society starting expressing capitalist ideas of the old society, and attempted to behave accordingly to his/her beliefs would that be dangerous, and would that person need surpressing, to be cured of such thoughts and behaviour?

 

[118118]

My psychiatrist did not stop me self-harming, saw it as irrelevant, and ignored it. The self-harming was a big signifying part of what was wrong with me, but she refused to recognise it as such. The arrogance of professionals...It was support outside of hospital that helped me end my self-harming....

Fair enough

Captial? What are you on about? Every society has it's own defintions, ideas of madness, what doesn't fit into socially accepted norms. How would all those notions of madness bandied around disappear with the ending of a capitalist society? Can you answer that?. If someone taking part in the building of an anarchist society starting expressing capitalist ideas of the old society, and attempted to behave accordingly to his/her beliefs would that be dangerous, and would that person need surpressing, to be cured of such thoughts and behaviour?

IMHO there is more to mental illnes than just a label. At the least there are ceratin factual statements that are made with them. I contend that at the very least, it would be easier to live with schizophrenia in a more collective society, especially if that society was not run on capital. I ahve heard talk of lettimng dissedents leaving societies, so unless they were actively trying to overthrow it and replace it with capitalism, then I see no reason to think that they would have to be labelled mentally ill and sectioned etc. simply stopped from enslaving us really.

 

[Blagsta]

Robert Young is a psychoanalyst coming from a left perspective http://human-nature.com/rmyoung/

 

[rich!]

Basically, if you go mental, they section you. You either come to terms with society and keep taking the meds/change the way you act or they section you again.

Happened to a mate of mine.

He fell out with his parents over his career choices, and was a bit of a flake - the kind of chap who always pushed a joke a bit further than was comfortable, if you know what I mean. His father and his landlord ganged up on him and tried to have him sectioned, so he fled and hid out in various places whilst appealing against it. (I wrote a testimonial letter in my Respectable Capacity - not sure it helped at all...) Basically, there is no appeal - once the medical people make their mind up, you're inside until you're "better", for some value of better.

He stuck it out and fled the country as soon as he was released. After a year of living abroad with, by all accounts, a wonderful woman, he threw himself out of an 8-th floor window. Funeral's a week Friday.

No, I have no helpful advice on this one, sorry.

 

[Ryazan]

There is a system of appeal patients can use once you are sectioned and in psychiatric care. There was when I was sectioned 5 years ago. It can be within the hospital itself, and also further to an independant tribunal. You aren't just sectioned and that is it.

 

[Herbert Read]

There is a system of appeal patients can use once you are sectioned and in psychiatric care. There was when I was sectioned 5 years ago. It can be within the hospital itself, and also further to an independant tribunal. You aren't just sectioned and that is it.

currently you can appeal to the mental health review tribunal and the hospital managers.

 

[past caring]

They do, on occasion, get it wrong though - and let out some utter loons. Eh, herbs?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If you can find it Peter Sedgwick wrote a terrific book , I think called Psychpolitics about mental health in Britain, he also wrote several short articles about mental health.

Psychopolitics. Pluto, 1982, 0086104352. I think it's very good although it's helpful to have some idea of the people, ideas and events (e.g. Laing and his stay in Sri Lanka) that Sedgwick is critiquing.

 

[118118]

Funny thing about being sectioned is its so easy to escape. Except the first few days. I would have, but I just thought that I'd be truned in by anyone I went to visit .

 

[TeeJay]

Funny thing about being sectioned is its so easy to escape. Except the first few days. I would have, but I just thought that I'd be truned in by anyone I went to visit .

Not always.

I have been to see people who are in very tight lockdown with no way of getting out at all: eg three sets of locked doors, with CCTV between each and lots of guards etc. fire escapes only going to more secure areas and so forth - there is a place on Landor Road like this.

Anyway - where are most people going to go? The police would be asked to pick you up and friends and family would probably be asked to phone them too. If you can't go home then where exactly are you going to "escape" to?

 

[GeorgeStapleton]

Interesting article in the (A) fed's mag

http://www.libcom.org/hosted/af/org/organise55_web.htm#head

But beyong that I say go for Laing. He's pretty good and his books are really enjoyable to read. (Or at least I think they are).

 

[118118]

I have been to see people who are in very tight lockdown with no way of getting out at all: eg three sets of locked doors, with CCTV between each and lots of guards etc. fire escapes only going to more secure areas and so forth - there is a place on Landor Road like this.

Anyway - where are most people going to go? The police would be asked to pick you up and friends and family would probably be asked to phone them too. If you can't go home then where exactly are you going to "escape" to?

True. Though from what I heard the majority of people were aloud out for a while each day, even in the high security hospital down the road.
I was terrified that they would never agree to let me out, I mean a month is shit, but years... forever?

 

[TeeJay]

True. Though from what I heard the majority of people were aloud out for a while each day, even in the high security hospital down the road.

Not at this place. No way. It would be a bit pointless having three sets of reenforced, locked doors, and searching everyone and everything that comes onto the ward if you were going to let people out wouldn't it?

You are probably right about the "majority" however, at least after a few weeks.

 

[Ryazan]

Funny thing about being sectioned is its so easy to escape. Except the first few days. I would have, but I just thought that I'd be truned in by anyone I went to visit .

I left a low security ward after being placed under a section 3 , but was picked up by the police and taken back within an hour.

 

[fractionMan]

My sister managed to get out of one of the high security ones in exeter (or thereabouts). She made it as far as gatwick or heathrow before being picked up. She'd even managed to con them into getting her passport back.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Yeah, I remember you saying that. God knows what the poor member of staff had to say at the subsequent disciplinary interview.

 

[TeeJay]

...She'd even managed to con them into getting her passport back.

Maybe she said she needed it as proof of id for benefits or at a bank or something?

 

[Blagsta]

But beyong that I say go for Laing. He's pretty good and his books are really enjoyable to read. (Or at least I think they are).

Laing apparently nicked most of his ideas from other people and passed them of as his own. Well, that's according to my partner anyhow who is studying to be a psychoanalytic psychotherapist.

 

[118118]

I left a low security ward after being placed under a section 3 , but was picked up by the police and taken back within an hour.

Some of the people who were there just seemed to regularly escape. But they always came back. <Evil Ho Ho Ho>.
Madness. And its never over, they could do it again at any time. If I get angry at anyone the call will go through.
If I make sounds about *People reading my mind***** again or not wanting my meds <Form an ordaily cue now> Maybe this time its for good

 

[118118]

Well, that's according to my partner anyhow who is studying to be a psychoanalytic psychotherapist.

Do you have a reference for that?

 

[GeorgeStapleton]

Laing apparently nicked most of his ideas from other people and passed them of as his own. Well, that's according to my partner anyhow who is studying to be a psychoanalytic psychotherapist.

It doesn't really matter though does it? I mean Laing wrote pretty accessible books, so i'd recomend them, cos they are good and easy to read. I don't see why anyone would give a shit as to whether he got their first or not. Seems kind of petty really.

 

[Blagsta]

Do you have a reference for that?

I'll have to ask my partner later. But afaik, Laing just repackaged a lot of pyschoanalytic ideas for a mass market.

 

[Herbert Read]

They do, on occasion, get it wrong though - and let out some utter loons. Eh, herbs?

My mental health has never come into question, nothing that required detention under the MHA 1983.

Far from it i used to work as an approved social worker and facilitate access to hospital or find alternative routes to in patient care.


Awaits the evil oppressor comments

 

[Herbert Read]

My psychiatrist did not stop me self-harming, saw it as irrelevant, and ignored it. The self-harming was a big signifying part of what was wrong with me, but she refused to recognise it as such. The arrogance of professionals...It was support outside of hospital that helped me end my self-harming....

Never put your faith in professionals 9/10 the individual facilitates recovery, support can help but only the individual can adapt behaviour and learn to manage there environment, friends and social net works can be a big part of it.

 

[Ryazan]

I know that, it was informal networks in my day to day life that eventually did most of the work in helping my recovery, but while in hospital and self-harming, my psychiatrist was indifferent at best, down right rude at worst.

 

[Herbert Read]

I know that, it was informal networks in my day to day life that eventually did most of the work in helping my recovery, but while in hospital and self-harming, my psychiatrist was indifferent at best, down right rude at worst.

Try refusing a psychiatrist an admission under the MHA 1983 to hospital and see how thery react, big ego's and big threats.