Protest against army recruitment centre
- Thread starter osterberg
- Start date
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
this protest still misses the point completely imo. Protest against the war by all means.
But protesting about recruiting of soldiers is simply ridiculous. It is taking away freedom of those that may want to join and as ive said before i thought the whole point was that we are against removing peoples freedom?
But protesting about recruiting of soldiers is simply ridiculous. It is taking away freedom of those that may want to join and as ive said before i thought the whole point was that we are against removing peoples freedom?
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
waterloowelshy said:this protest still misses the point completely imo. Protest against the war by all means.
But protesting about recruiting of soldiers is simply ridiculous. It is taking away freedom of those that may want to join and as ive said before i thought the whole point was that we are against removing peoples freedom?
informing those who may want to join of the realities of war, and that they themselves will be exposed to depleted uranium, can't be a bad thing. Many of the people who join are estate kids escaping the sheer boredom of service jobs, low pay and unemployment.
Despite the relentless propaganda, which attempts to normalise 1 1/4 million unemployed as full employment, most people can't realistically be considered to be joining the army out of freely made choice.
I think the issue is one of how the protest is pitched. If it is pitched so as make those who are considering joining feel like the enemy, it may just result in them being more determined to join. But if they're given information denied them by the mainstream media, they may instead see friendly concern.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
very good point. Information for those considering joining is vital, so providing all the facts would be reat to ensure that full thought was given to the pros and cons of joining. But the intial post seems to suggest that the protest aims at shutting recruitment centres down. Is the protest aimed at informing then? and would it not be better to use the resources of the protest to inform people about the downsides of joining as opposed to just protesting blindly?munkeeunit said:
Hey dude, did you read my long and time-consuming post explaining all that? I took ages explaining exactly why this wasn't an example of protesting blindly. Cos from this recent post....waterloowelshy said:
... it seems to me like you didn't read what I said at all, like. And all I was doing is trying to help.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
youre right - i havent the time or inclination to read your whole post in detail at the mo. not ignoring its contents but really cant look at it properly at the mo. hopefully soon though. ill try and get back to you when i can.llantwit said:Hey dude, did you read my long and time-consuming post explaining all that? I took ages explaining exactly why this wasn't an example of protesting blindly. Cos from this recent post....
... it seems to me like you didn't read what I said at all, like. And all I was doing is trying to help.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
llantwit said:[bourgeois mode/]Can't make it - going to the Hay Festival[/Bourgeois mode off]
Try and catch Max, he is speaking at the Hay Fringe Festival
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
waterloowelshy said:
As it says at the beginining of the thread: At a time when Britain is occupuying Iraq, is it appropriate to have an army recruitment building in the town centre? It's as simple as that.
This demo comes in the wake of the My Lai massacre in Haditha. In the same month as the Haditha massacre is uncovered (one of a pattern of massacres documented by Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, but unfortunately ignored by the mainstream media), two "anti-war" MPs voted for tougher penalties for soldiers who have qualms about going to Iraq.
I would also suggest that we picket the surgeries of Julie Morgan and Jenny Willott to shame them, and also on Friday 16 June I would ask people to book a meeting with the army recruitment officer visiting the University Careers Centre on Corbett Road for a discussion!
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
O Mate
My Lai was Vietnam
My Lai was Vietnam
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/5031112.stm
'he loved his job'
worth leaving 3 kids fatherless then eh....
RIP Paul
'he loved his job'
worth leaving 3 kids fatherless then eh....
RIP Paul
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
Fruitloop said:I reckon he knows that
Yep I reckon so depends on his age, but the papers have reported it like a My Lai, so it's not a given
However if you didn't know what it was, it's misinformation.
waterloowelshy said:this protest still misses the point completely imo. Protest against the war by all means.
But protesting about recruiting of soldiers is simply ridiculous. It is taking away freedom of those that may want to join and as ive said before i thought the whole point was that we are against removing peoples freedom?
Simple question (cos you seem incapable of taking this in):
Is it freedom of choice for 14-15 yr old school kids to be bussed in to an army recruitment fair by their teachers?
The day the army runs a recruitment advert saying "come and fight for your country in Iraq - you may die" is the day there's freedom of choice for economic conscripts.
The fact is that the state needs unthinking conscripts for its army - if they thought a bit more they'd join the 1000 deserters. Now that is a thought...
RubberBuccaneer said:
Good book about that published in 1984 called 'Police Conspiracy' (John Osmond) I believe. I read it for some history coursework - also highlights some of the corrupt and incompetent operations of SW Police and special branch in relation to this botched trial.
RubberBuccaneer said:
Udo has always wanted to live in1968.
I wouldn't be surprised if Haditha is the tip of the iceberg.It makes you wonder how many more incidents like this has taken place.
Which makes it all the more important to get to the demo tomorrow.
This article has stuff about the attempted cover up by the US army and other examples of similar massacres.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=8955
If they tried to cover up Haditha how many other murders have they successfully covered up?
About 30 or so people.
The speakers were Plaid,a Stop The War student and someone who has been in Iraq.They were all a bit inaudible partly due to the 1000's of Speedway fans going to the millenium stadium with their bloody air horns.
And the Red Choir insisted on singing.If you want to present something that looks like a credible protest you don't want a bunch of loonies in red t-shirts jumping up and down and 'singing' out of tune.
On a postive note the weather was nice.
And at least it happenned as it's been a while since Stop the War did anything in Cardiff and hopefully the next activity will be more successful.
The speakers were Plaid,a Stop The War student and someone who has been in Iraq.They were all a bit inaudible partly due to the 1000's of Speedway fans going to the millenium stadium with their bloody air horns.
And the Red Choir insisted on singing.If you want to present something that looks like a credible protest you don't want a bunch of loonies in red t-shirts jumping up and down and 'singing' out of tune.
On a postive note the weather was nice.
And at least it happenned as it's been a while since Stop the War did anything in Cardiff and hopefully the next activity will be more successful.
Aww - I quite like the red choir - they're an asset to the Cardiff left, and not a hinderance in my opinion. I've heard this kind of opinion about them before, though - is there some kind of 'history' that I'm unaware of, or is it simply about having loonies in red singing badly?
Genuine question - not looking for an argument or anything - just curious, as there seems to be an general antipathy towards them from the organised left party members in Cardiff.
Genuine question - not looking for an argument or anything - just curious, as there seems to be an general antipathy towards them from the organised left party members in Cardiff.
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
Dai Sheep said:
I've got a copy of that if anyone wants to lend it, unless it was one of the ones 1927 had in which case ask him.
Col_Buendia
sort code
osterberg said:
That's pathetic - I've never understood why the Cardiff left have such a bugbear with the Red Choir. They certainly outstrip every last one of the rest of us for their commitment and longevity, and they understand solidarity in a way that seems sadly lacking among other groupuscules in this city.And quite what you imagine a "credible" demonstration to be I don't know. Having had the experience of bringing lots of "normal" mates on demos in the past years, "credible" for them certainly wasn't the swivel-eyed zealots of the STWC or random other paper-sellers ranting down their megaphones. Credible in whose eyes, Osterberg? Is it your own discomfort at having to share a space with a group of other people who - god forbid! - think and act as they so choose, and not as the party hierarchy so determines, that bothers you?
"Loonies" - you really ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Col_Buendia
sort code
llantwit said:
et tu, brute?
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
Do you ( generally now ) think having crusty types, hippies, and rag tags of all groups leftist/anarchist makes for an effective demo, or would smartly dressed non ranting people be more affective for accessing the mainstream ?
Col_Buendia
sort code
osterberg said:
Not Osterberg, but a member of the Red Choir engaging in "some actual political activity".
Col_Buendia
sort code
RubberBuccaneer said:
I don't believe in the "mainstream" notion, that is the same logic as has made Blair dictate policy in fear of the next day's Daily Mail/Express headline.
For that reason I don't have a problem with the Red Choir. And at the end of the day they do a heck of a lot more (ime) than most of the rest of us, have been doing it for years, and do it with (their own) style and grace.
Fair play to 'em and shame on the carpers.
RubberBuccaneer
Hedd Wyn
I'll take this to another thread so as not to derail
lostexpectation
New Member
so any reports out there?
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Glad to see it was all so worthwhile. 
Christ,sorry.
I just can't stand them that's all.
It's the leftier than though attitude and Ray Davies' martyrdom complex that grates.They must have a revolving door in Cardiff nick for him.
Sorry but that's just how I feel about them.
I'll keep my opinions of them to myself in future.
I just can't stand them that's all.
It's the leftier than though attitude and Ray Davies' martyrdom complex that grates.They must have a revolving door in Cardiff nick for him.
Sorry but that's just how I feel about them.
I'll keep my opinions of them to myself in future.
