waterloowelshy said:
good god - what ever happened to freedom of choice people? - no one is forced to join the army - its not like national service is it?! - i dont agree with the illegal wars either before anyone starts but some people actually want to join the army. do you have th right to deny them that?!
Very shrill WW. It doesn't become you. Calm down and stop posting rage smilies for a while before you do yourself an injury.
Now this has descended into the usual bun fight so I'm going to take the time to post my thoughts slowy and without shouting, to give you the respect you deserve.
Nobody here is denying anybody the chance to join the army... shutting down or protesting outside the recruitment centre won't achieve this - it will be a symbolic protest against the war and the army's recruitment policies.
the level of stupidity that is being levelled at those wishing to join the army by the so called protesters on here is staggering! - people make choices every day. I dare say that anyone joining the army has a fair understanding of the possibilities that await them upon signing up. We all know and make an informed decision not to join based on our views and beliefs. But taking away peoples freedom to join should they so wish is ridiculous.
Again - nobody's 'taking away' anyone's 'freedom to join' the army. just exactly how could a bunch of protestors do that? What you're suggesting just doesn't make sense to me here. Even if they were planning to blow the place up, that wouldn't take away people's freedom to join - it could at best delay their opportunity to join. But they aren't even planning that. I hope (and suspect) what they're planning to do is both protest against the war, and hand out information and talk to folk about the armed forces to allow people to make a more informed decision that is not just based on the one-sided version the army provides.
On the related point about us 'ALL making informed decissions' to join or not join - well, that's true, we all make these decisions, of course. I haven't read anyone denying this, and if I did I'd disagree with them. Nobody is forced to join the army.
But that's not to say that the army don't have millions of pounds at their disposal to spend on 'persuading' people to join the army, and naturally, the picture they paint isn't of ilegal wars, gulf war syndrome, radiation poisoning from handling DU shells, etc. It's more likely to involve folks climbing Everest and gritty teamwork and heartwarming Spielbergesque 'be the best' moments. Those who oppose the wars the army are sent to fight, and have a different take on what it might be like to join, don't have the same resources to fund their campaigns, so they go and stand outside Army Recruitment Centres (amongst other things) to get their point accross. This is quite understandable to me.
But I haven't finished with the 'we all make free and informed decisions' point you made yet. Like I said, this is obviously true. But the range of information we all have at our disposal varies, and so do the economic circumstances in which we make those decisions.
First - the range of information. Irrespective of social class, we all have different levels of knowledge about different fields. Period. Also access to research tools like the library and the internet where people can find out about the realities of army life is likewise not universal. We don't all start from a level playing field when we make our informed decisions. Things like literacy, and poverty do play a part in how well equipped a person is to provide him or herself with information to make an informed decision.
Second - the economic circumstances we're in when we make that decision. Even if you and I have exactly the same level of knowledge about the army when we're making our informed decision, our relative wealth at the time of making that decision will always play a role when it comes to the crunch. If you are a graduate with a steady job, and I am a school leaver with slightly below average GCSE or A levels and no immediate prospect of a job, then it will obviously be easier for you to make the decision not to join up than it will be for me. That's just a fact, surely.
exactly - its all about choice. Who are we to deny people a choice, and by the same measure a possible future? - do the protesters have any other meaningful employment for those who wish to join the army that they are seeking to stop doing so?
It *is* all about choice - it should be about *informed* choice, and that's what should be emphasised by the protestors. If by shutting down the recruitment centre and handing out information about why it might be futile to fight in other mens' wars they can come closer to this, then all power to them. Free choice is not aided by multimilion pound ad campaigns that glorify the army and whitewash over all that's wrong with it/all the negatives.
This really has to be one of the worst thought out ideas for protesting that has been devised.
It really does have quite a long history, WW. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it as a strategy before. To me it seems to me a logical place to protest against war and the strategies of the state to employ ever more working-class folk as roadside bomb fodder.
you obviously don't have to answer it, but it would explain a few things if you could bring yourself to...
